[mike777]

What are examples of a minimum and maximum
NV weak jump overcall for you?

[jillybean]

I would expect partner to have a 6 card suit
xx,KJxxxx,xxx,xx minimum

xx,AQxxxx,Kxx,Jx max

Our 1M overcall can be on as little as
AQxxx,xxx,xxx,xx

[mikeh]

Impossible to answer with precision without giving information such as:

1. What seat are we in? Amongst other factors this involves whether partner has passed yet

2. Has an opp passed….ex. (P) P 1x to me or P (1x) to me or (1x) to me

3. Is this mps or imps?

4. What is the vulnerability. Not just for us but also for them

5. What’s our shape?

6. What is our style on 3 level preempts? For example, when would we bid 3D over 1C rather than 2D? Or 3S over 1x rather than 2S?

7. What will partner expect? That question is for experienced partnerships, since it’s likely only then that you know the answer

8. How internally strong is our suit? At favourable, AQxxxx would be an average + suit. At unfavourable AQ108xx would be a not great suit.


If white v red and in third chair, so partner has passed but LHO has not….this is the situation in which one should be most aggressive. It’s the one where the potential for the opps to have at least game and maybe slam is the greatest, hence it is winning strategy, in the long run but not on every hand, to disrupt their auction. Therefore the minimum requirements are lower than in other situations.

Conversely, imagine red v white, 2nd seat at mps. Partner may have a good hand…the opps may have no game or slam, and they may not need to double….you go -200 against their partscore, partner holding a decent but misfitting hand…good on defence but not much use on offence…or they do have game or slam but they happen to be able to beat you 1100 at the 2 level. This seat is the one where you should be most conservative

A note to jb….overcalling on 1S on AQxxx xxx xxx xx is…well, to be polite….unwise. Playing in a weak game, where the opps don’t know how to bid over even the simplest interference and playing with a timid partner I’m sure it works out quite often. But if your goal is to become a better player or to help partner improve, stop doing this. The difference may be subtle, but if nv I would definitely overcall on say AQJxx xxx xxx xx. That jack is a trick better hand….it’s only 1 hcp but compare it to AQxxx xxx xxx Jx. And I would not overcall red v white with AQJxx xxx xxx xx.

Back to my comments. All of my points influence not just 2 level jumps but also 3 level jumps. Red v white, partner unpassed, I’d bid, say 2S on some hands on which, white v red, partner passed hand, I’d bid 3S. In my main partnership our rule of thumb is that at favourable vulnerability we bid at the 3 level with hands too weak for the 2 level….our 2 level bids are generally sound while our 3 level bids are not. Red v white, our 3 level bids are sound….as are our two level jumps….the 3 level will be a better playing hand, usually due to holding a 7 card suit.

6331 shape is preferable to 6322…so my suit and hcp requirements are slightly higher for 6322 than 6331. Same for 6421/6430….those generally play better even than 6331…but not always.

Sorry for the long answer, but all of these factors play a role….

Most relate to the inherent safety of the bid of you end up playing in your bid, doubled or undoubled. Partner’s expectations are, however, hugely important when partner has a fit for your suit and the issue is how high to compete, including when to sacrifice. If I’m playing with a new partner and I have the time to talk about our methods, I almost always ask something like this…‘ give me an example of the worst hand and suit you’d have for a preemptive opening red v white 2nd seat and then white v red 1st seat? Those answers also inform me about single jump overcalls since they tell me how aggressive or conservative partner is.

Imo, it’s best to play different styles for different seats and vulnerabilities. Red v white, 1C on my right, 2S might be AQJ10xx xxx xxx x. It won’t be KJ9xxx xxx xxx x. White v red it might well be.

[Cyberyeti]

Also depends what you're overcalling.

Over a 2+ card club, we go nuts and WJO on absolute filth 4+ cards for example. Over any other suit or a natural club, we will do it on 5.

We overcall very soundly for simple overcalls and light for the jumps.

[mw64ahw]

If you think of the overall as a Weak 2 then I'd overcall at the 2-level with a min. and 1-level with a max.

[mycroft]

Mike, as usual, has it right. I would emphasize 1, and especially 4. Second seat all white is *not the same* as First seat favourable.

I disagree with his 7, though. I do not think this is "experienced partnerships only"; I think it's something I want to know when someone I've never played with before comes in and helps me fill in a table. In fact, I think if I had to give a "one-sentence" answer to the original question, it would be:

"What partner expects me to have."

If someone checks my history, they'd find that almost automatically, the answer to any question that involves a (potential) preempt by our side is "that depends on what partner thinks a preempt looks like." I don't think I'm wrong, and nobody's disagreed yet (except maybe to say "this is what partner *should think* a preempt looks like"). The people who spend 20 minutes working out exactly what version of Bergen they're going to play, or what 2NT-3♠ is, or what the king-ask after Rolling Gerber is, but don't ask "when I open at the 3 level, what kind of suit do you expect, and how different is it second vul than first favourable?" astonish me - how do they survive the 3-4 hands this session they preempt in? (Actually, I know: 4♠-1 or 3♠+1 when they Ogust and misread the response, usually).

Also, if you check my history, you will see that my own personal belief is that a preempt should have a defined, limited, maximum outside strength. You're putting the rest of the auction into partner's hands; they *have to know* when they should compete, or double them, or sacrifice, or sit and hope it's the least worst result.

I do think that a WJO shouldn't quite have the requirements of an opening weak 2 (at the same seat and vulnerability). An opening has to consider that "the big hand" is partner's. A WJO already knows where "more than their share" of the points are - with opener. That doesn't mean it can't be 13-6-3-18 or the like; but it's more likely that it's the opponents' hand.) But - if partner wants my WJO to look like our weak 2's, partner's right - at least today.