[thepossum]

Hi everyone

Remarkably we found 4H for 100% top but not exactly happy how we got there
Please don't be too hard on my forcing 2C

Any of my bid options after 3NT gave me 10 more points
I would have been happy with 4D passed

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[TylerE]

That's at least a King short of a 2♣ opening and that IS me not being too hard on it.

Make bids that resemble the contents of your hand.

[jillybean]

Congratulations?
While it may be fun passing time playing games with BOTs , it will ruin your game if you ever want to play live bridge.

[thepossum]

Come on peeople

Having 1 diamond passed with that is seriously sad

If 2 clubs is all I have i will use it and expect to hve a partner just as good

And seriously. There is no need to always be so rude and insulting

:I know how to bid

And is it so hard to answer the question I asked please

I have been playing for more than 40 years and still some of you ignore how successful I am at good contracts agains so-called better players

So can anyone please explain the meaning of the bidf instead of being obnoxious

The only reason I am forced to play with bots is that it is no hard to find 3 other compatible good imaginative and fun plauers
Unprovoked attacks
Like gang attacks agains one person for some freason. Why? Safety in numbers for bullies is it

So I will ask again. Please what does that cheaper minor bid mean
I thought it was a way to escape a game in an emergency with nothing opposite 2C

If anyone is polite enough to answer without being rude and patronising I wil be polite back

But its getting boring. And hi Tyler. I asked you a while back to lea ve me alone until you learned some polite manners and respect

What runis gamesis people who cannot lighten up and have some fun with their bidding. But if I dropped into a table with all my years of experience and good judgement and i would get some obnoxious noobdy have a go yes. That is what BBO is like

But i do take incessant attacks and patronising insults as another feather in my cap. In Bridge and other forums. People only attack people endlessly because they are a threat. Sometimes it pays to stretch a hand, use a bit of "psych" so to speak. Nice to have other players who can deal with it

So back to the cheaper minor which was the topic of the thread. Not let's bully the possum again

What does it mean. I have to bid a minor 4C or 4D for a relay or to be passed. If I bid 4C would it be the right bid
I even considered passing 3NT lol. Lucky for me I didn't Should I have bid 4C then bot bids 4D pass?

And the associated question was why bidding 4 clubs of diamonds over that 3NT magically gives me another 10 points. Those were the questions and I specifically asked to ignore the slightly psychy 2C

Can someone please do me and the forum the respect of asnwering a simple question please

Next time I want a bit of community bullying I will put it as the thread title. To make it clear that is what I am loooking for
Is it about stopping some people asking questions or participating. I obseve that kind of bullying and trolling on other forums
What is it about. A simple question but no. Let's attack our favorte punch bag. Why? A simple question asked with my usual good humour met with total rudeness again. Why? And after all these years I guess I am stupid enough to keep trying to get politeness back to match mine. And good humour too. But I am constantly let down

[thepossum]

I asked a more polite robot

Your bidding sequence:

2♣ – Strong, artificial, and forcing
2♦ – Waiting bid (partner has no immediate strong suit to show)
3♦ – Showing a real diamond suit
3NT – Described as "cheaper minor"
What does 3NT = "cheaper minor" mean?
In some systems, particularly Acol or Precision-style approaches:

3NT after a 3♦ bid can imply that partner has a balanced hand with stoppers in the unbid suits but does not have primary support for diamonds.
The phrase "cheaper minor" could mean that if partner had a long minor, it would be clubs, not diamonds—so they are defaulting to 3NT instead of supporting your suit.
Alternatively, partner may simply be offering to play in 3NT as a final contract, assuming your diamonds can act as a source of tricks.
What should you do?
If your diamonds are long and strong (e.g., six+ good ones), you might correct to 4♦ if you think NT is risky.
If you have good stoppers in the side suits and no major suit concern, you can pass 3NT and let partner play there.

Is it that hard on a Brudge forum for good Bridge players to be that polite and answer in a similar fashion

In my auction it could have been a disastrous misiunderstanding

Note the idea of a polite informative and relevant answer and the absence of bullying and patronisng

It is just as sad and just as boring having to resort to asking robots for answers to questions as well as to have a game

Regarding being a bit psychy from time to time. I find I do not distort things that much to be descibed as psych and while sometimes it works out, it also is just as likely to let me down. So not really unfair

[thepossum]

What Likely Happened?
You bid 3♦, expecting it to show a real suit.

This is standard and should have shown at least a decent 5+ card diamond suit.
Partner bid 3NT, possibly thinking:

It was a default response showing no interest in diamonds.
They were trying to scramble to NT, even with very little strength.
They misunderstood your 3♦ bid and thought it was artificial or forcing.
Your potential 4♣ bid (if made) might have confused things more.

If partner was already struggling to understand your 3♦ bid, 4♣ could have made them think you were stronger than you were.
Partner might have expected it to be a slam move or a second suit rather than an attempt to correct.
What Should Have Happened?
If partner had only 2 points, they shouldn’t have bid 3NT unless they had a solid reason (e.g., good long clubs and stoppers in the majors).
If partner had nothing useful and no fit for diamonds, they probably should have bid 3♦ (pass or correct), or 4♦ if they thought NT was too risky.
Your best action over 3NT, if you felt it was a mistake, would have been to pass or correct to 4♦—not 4♣ unless you truly had clubs.
Going Forward:
Check agreements on what "cheaper minor" really means—was it a scramble bid, a suit preference, or a default NT response?
Consider clarifying whether 3♦ is forcing or not after a strong 2♣ opener.
If partner had only 2 points, they might have panicked and bid 3NT wrongly, which means discussing what to do with very weak hands in this sequence would help in the future.
Would you like to discuss a better agreement for handling weak hands after a 2♣ opening?

Quite disastrous potentially I will resort to asking Chat GPT in future rather than putting something up relevant to GiB's bidding

I have been advised to check with partner what 3NT meant

[thepossum]

PS

Sorry for getting upset. Still can't deal with it some days

[mw64ahw]

What do the bots. think 3♥ is over 2♦? Some play it as x46x.

[thepossum]

Thx mw

Appreciate a serious response

What is also upsetting is being bullied off the other forums and posting on the robot one, only to be pursued here

Personally with a diamond game force I would be happy for such a weak hand to try baling out completely

4 hearts was wonderful serendipity

Lucky not to end in 6

[mycroft]

"cheaper minor" here is short for "cheaper minor double negative": i.e. "I have absolute garbage partner, not even a king, probably not QQ or 5 hcp either" (depending on agreement).

I remember at least one other thread where it was shown that the bots play 3NT as "ultra-negative" after specifically the auction 2♣-2♦; 3♦. I actually think it's a decent agreement - you certainly don't want to make an artificial call at the 4 level showing weakness, and *bypassing* 3NT, which might be the only making game.

However, I've never run into it, as that auction is anathema to me, and I would never do it if I had any excuse. Here, I'm 18 high and play well in hearts if partner has them; and if partner can't respond to 1♦, and the opponents can't overcall, I'm probably going plus, and game isn't on. So that's 3 reasons. This potential auction is a fourth (I *really* don't think 3NT is coming in if partner doesn't have a king...) I am rather a hardliner on "resist upgrading hands into your artificial strong opening"; more so when it's the worst hand to show (two-suiter, or one-and-a-half suiter, with primary diamonds and a major); others will not be as hardline as me, but I wouldn't do it with the same hand with ♥AK85 - which isn't really an "upgrade". You'll get more sympathy for it from others; and I'm not saying I'm right and they're wrong; I admit that it's a personal bias.

[HardVector]

3n is the "cheaper minor" bid after opener has bid 3d after a 2c opening. It means a bust hand. The reason this works, is because to bid 2c followed by 3 of a minor, you typically have a hand that is based on taking at least 9 1/2 quick tricks. Partner, by bidding 3n, is saying they can take 0 tricks. Therefore, 3n is likely the best contract based on your 9 tricks. Note that pulling 3n results in the bot thinking you have a 30 pt hand as you are still looking for a diamond slam opposite partner's nothing burger.

Now, lets look at your hand. A of spades, AKQ diamonds = 4 quick tricks. 18 hcp. open 1d. Puke all you want, that is the correct opening bid. Playing result merchant and noting that on this specific hand landing in 4h is the par result doesn't change that.

[pescetom]

I agree that you deserve an explanation of the agreement about 3NT ("4- total points, any distribution: we don't know what we are doing"). One of the many GiB shortcomings is providing explanations that merely name a convention rather than describe the actual agreement.

I also don't find opening 2♣ so terrible, but then American and UK perception of the strength requirements is quite different from here. Not that East will always pass out 1♦-(P)-P or that it needs be a disaster either.

[mw64ahw]

I think I'd get lucky on this one playing my Esoteric Unbalanced♦ despite the 'bust' hand since I have both Majors.
1♦-1♥ either/both Majors - opps. tend to struggle with this bid for some reason!
3♥ 6♦4♥ GF-4♥

[pescetom]

A lot of my opponents would balance in East if North passed 1♦ and then one finds 4♥ even with natural methods.

Playing more sensible 2♣ developments than these North would first show a bust and then hearts, again one finds 4♥ naturally.

[mikl_plkcc]

I think you, not the convention, are a problem here.

In Standard American bidding, a 2♣ opening forces to at least 1 level below game, therefore the 3♦ bid is absolutely forcing, as opener can have a huge hand and give the responder a chance to bid.

The problem is that you have lied a 2♣. Your hand is only worth something when there is a ♦ fit. If there is a misfit you are nowhere below game. Therefore it is your partner's responsibility to show a ♦ fit, if any, and if the auction goes 1♦ all pass, you are unlikely to miss anything.

Your hand does not have 22 points (including distribution), does not have 9 1/2 playing tricks, does not have 4 defensive tricks, and has more losers (4 losers) than quick tricks. It meets none of the common criteria of opening a strong 2♣.

"Cheaper minor" is a convention after a strong 2♣ opener to show a valueless hand by the responder. The responder first bids 2♦ waiting, then, without a fit, bid 3♣ after 2♥ or 2♠, 3♦ after 3♣, or 3NT after 3♦, which switches off the game force. By refusing to play in 3NT when offered, you are suggesting that you have a very strong hand which has interest in a ♦ slam against nothing, otherwise you would have jump rebid in ♦ after opening 2♣, bypassing 3NT at the first circumstance, which shows a near-game-force single-suited hand in ♦.