[JeffMorrow]

My partner and I play that when opener bids a suit at the one-level and the first response is a suit at the one-level, opener MUST ensure that responder get a second opportunity to bid UNLESS responder previously passed. So, for example, after 1D, (P), 1H, (P), opener may not pass, but after P, (P), 1D, (P), 1H, (P), opener may pass. This is (or at least used to be) standard, I believe.

We also play that a jump shift by a hand that has not previously passed shows a weak hand with a long suit and is preemptive and so definitely not forcing. So, for example, after 1D, (P), 2H, (P), opener may pass. I believe that this is a common understanding. But what if responder previously passed? For example, P, (P), 1D, (P), 2H, (P). Obviously, opener may pass; responder didi not have the strength to open. But should opener interpret this as weak and preemptive or as highly encouraging? If it is preemptive, is there a way for responder to show just under opening strength? Part of my problem here is that I do not see any great value in a preemptive bid when both opponents have already passed, but I do see value in way to let opener know that game may be possible.

[bluenikki]

JeffMorrow, on 2026-February-04, 09:27, said:

We also play that a jump shift by a hand that has not previously passed shows a weak hand with a long suit and is preemptive and so definitely not forcing. So, for example, after 1D, (P), 2H, (P), opener may pass. I believe that this is a common understanding. But what if responder previously passed? For example, P, (P), 1D, (P), 2H, (P). Obviously, opener may pass; responder did not have the strength to open.

What about the hand made it wrong to pre-empt as dealer but right to pre-empt now? And who do you think you need to pre-empt against? Certainly not LHO. RHO is possible; they might have the best hand at the table but with diamonds the only suit. Is that small possibility worth devoting a bid?

[DavidKok]

I play that a delayed weak jump shift is still weak. This caters to the hands that are unsuitable for a preempt but also do not want to pass partner's opening. More crucially, it means the rest of my system stays intact. Since a passed hand is not able to force to game, I really value having my regular weak, simple raise strength and invitational strength structure intact. You could change the meaning that a passed hand shows a different range, e.g. invitational, but I think there are not that many benefits.

One alternative is to treat these jumps by passed hand as fit-showing bids. However, this is quite a bit of work and memory strain for a rare hand type.

Personally I think showing the weak hand immediately is very important, even as a passed hand. Often opener has extra values and was about to take some losing action such as make a game forcing jump rebid, and we need to hit the brakes right now.

[JeffMorrow]

bluenikki, on 2026-February-04, 11:47, said:

What about the hand made it wrong to pre-empt as dealer but right to pre-empt now? And who do you think you need to pre-empt against? Certainly not LHO. RHO is possible; they might have the best hand at the table but with diamonds the only suit. Is that small possibility worth devoting a bid?

I think you misunderstood my question. It does not make intuitive sense to me that you would not preemp initially but preempt if partner opens over your pass. Your point about who is the preempt aimed at was actually a point I made in the original post.

[JeffMorrow]

DavidKok, on 2026-February-04, 12:36, said:

I play that a delayed weak jump shift is still weak. This caters to the hands that are unsuitable for a preempt but also do not want to pass partner's opening. More crucially, it means the rest of my system stays intact. Since a passed hand is not able to force to game, I really value having my regular weak, simple raise strength and invitational strength structure intact. You could change the meaning that a passed hand shows a different range, e.g. invitational, but I think there are not that many benefits.

One alternative is to treat these jumps by passed hand as fit-showing bids. However, this is quite a bit of work and memory strain for a rare hand type.

Personally I think showing the weak hand immediately is very important, even as a passed hand. Often opener has extra values and was about to take some losing action such as make a game forcing jump rebid, and we need to hit the brakes right now.

OK. I can understand wanting a a bid that is a strong warning. It is weak but not really preemptive. That still leaves me wondering what to do with a hand just under opening values. For example,♠ xxx ♥KQJxxx ♦ K10 ♣ xx is not a hand I would open (9 HCP, only 1.5 QT), but that looks really promising after partner opens 1♦

[DavidKok]

JeffMorrow, on 2026-February-04, 15:52, said:

OK. I can understand wanting a a bid that is a strong warning. It is weak but not really preemptive. That still leaves me wondering what to do with a hand just under opening values. For example,♠ xxx ♥KQJxxx ♦ K10 ♣ xx is not a hand I would open (9 HCP, only 1.5 QT), but that looks really promising after partner opens 1♦

I bid 1♥ with this hand. If opener jumps I am comfortable with a 3♥ rebid, while if opener rebids 1♠, 2♣ or 2♦ I can rebid 2♥ showing 9-11 in my system (my weak jump has a 4-8 range), or perhaps 3♥ if that is invitational in your system. Over a 1NT rebid I use XYNT, most people have some form of checkback gadget to show an invitational hand with hearts (though you could also decide that this hand is not worth a game try opposite 12-14 balanced).

In general I feel strongly that:

• The jump responses to 1-level openings should cater to the hand types that are difficult to show over opener's suit rebids. Over the NT rebids we have sufficient room and gadgets. To me this means splitting out a lot of weak hands that really want to play in their own suit, even opposite potential shortage.
  
• Opposite a 1m opening there are two ways to get to 2M: 1m-2M and 1m-1M; <something>-2M. I really like using this to split the invitational hands from the less-than-invitational hands, so that we can stop in 2M with a misfit even if responder has an invite.

A different gadget that achieves a similar result on a different set of hands is Reverse Flannery/UMJOODO, this time resolving problems with weak and invitational 5(+)♠4(+)♥ hands rather than the 6(+)M hands. I feel that the weak jump is more frequent and more valuable, but the gadgets are based on a similar philosophy.

[bluenikki]

DavidKok, on 2026-February-04, 12:36, said:

I play that a delayed weak jump shift is still weak. This caters to the hands that are unsuitable for a preempt but also do not want to pass partner's opening. More crucially, it means the rest of my system stays intact. Since a passed hand is not able to force to game, I really value having my regular weak, simple raise strength and invitational strength structure intact. You could change the meaning that a passed hand shows a different range, e.g. invitational, but I think there are not that many benefits.

One alternative is to treat these jumps by passed hand as fit-showing bids. However, this is quite a bit of work and memory strain for a rare hand type.

Personally I think showing the weak hand immediately is very important, even as a passed hand. Often opener has extra values and was about to take some losing action such as make a game forcing jump rebid, and we need to hit the brakes right now.

To be clear, your jump shift by a passed hand shows a hand too terrible for an opening pre-empt?

[jillybean]

bluenikki, on 2026-February-04, 20:25, said:

To be clear, your jump shift by a passed hand shows a hand too terrible for an opening pre-empt?

this had me thinking
or has a 4 card major?, for those players who don't preempt with a side 4 card major

[DavidKok]

 bluenikki, on 2026-February-04, 20:25, said:

To be clear, your jump shift by a passed hand shows a hand too terrible for an opening pre-empt?

It shows a hand in the 4-8 range with a 6(+)cM unsuitable for a preempt but also not wishing to pass. I don't like the description of 'too terrible'. For example, ♠976532, ♥AT2, ♦K3, ♣T5 might qualify, despite being top of the range.

 jillybean, on 2026-February-04, 20:58, said:

this had me thinking
or has a 4 card major?, for those players who don't preempt with a side 4 card major

For me there is no inference of side suits. Even if your partnership never preempts with an outside 4cM, there are many (many!) hands in the nominal range on which I would not preempt. Those hands are included in the delayed action, where we likely have the balance of strength and just want to get to the best partscore (or game if opener is really strong).

[mike777]

 DavidKok, on 2026-February-05, 00:35, said:

It shows a hand in the 4-8 range with a 6(+)cM unsuitable for a preempt but also not wishing to pass. I don't like the description of 'too terrible'. For example, ♠976532, ♥AT2, ♦K3, ♣T5 might qualify, despite being top of the range.

For me there is no inference of side suits. Even if your partnership never preempts with an outside 4cM, there are many (many!) hands in the nominal range on which I would not preempt. Those hands are included in the delayed action, where we likely have the balance of strength and just want to get to the best partscore (or game if opener is really strong).

What do your opening preempts look like, given there are many! Hands in the range which you would not preempt?

[DavidKok]

Wide ranging, hyper aggressive, frequently a five card suit.

This is getting offtopic but I strongly believe that with a weak shapely hand probably the most decision of the bidding is going to be whether or not to preempt, and if so how high. Usually after a preempt we don't take another action unless invited by partner, and deciding which hands are suitable for a preempt and which are not is a tragically underdiscussed and often underdeveloped skill. In my opinion it is very difficult to draw a good dividing line between hands that should and should not open a weak 2, for example.

[JeffMorrow]

DavidKok, on 2026-February-05, 01:03, said:

Wide ranging, hyper aggressive, frequently a five card suit.

This is getting offtopic but I strongly believe that with a weak shapely hand probably the most decision of the bidding is going to be whether or not to preempt, and if so how high. Usually after a preempt we don't take another action unless invited by partner, and deciding which hands are suitable for a preempt and which are not is a tragically underdiscussed and often underdeveloped skill. In my opinion it is very difficult to draw a good dividing line between hands that should and should not open a weak 2, for example.

I at least certainly do have hands with a long suit that are too weak to open but too strong to preempt (this of course may be error on my part). To over-simplify, my personal guideline is that I preempt on a hand with a long suit and an estimated number of highly likely tricks three off whatever I am bidding if my long suit is trump (two off at unfavorable vulnerability). But in first or second seat, I do not preempt with 10+ HCP or 2 quick tricks (unless both quick tricks are in the long suit). My logic is that if partner can contribute two tricks, we have a good sacrifice against opponents’ partial and if partner can contribute only one trick, we have a good sacrifice against opponents’ game.

So I would neither preempt nor open on ♠ Q94 ♥ Q10852 ♦ KQ7 ♣ 4. (I think David would open that, but I wouldn’t.)

So, my original question was related to hands like the above after an auction of P, (P), 1 ♦, (P), ? His advice is to bid 1♥.

[JeffMorrow]

DavidKok, on 2026-February-05, 01:03, said:

Wide ranging, hyper aggressive, frequently a five card suit.

This is getting offtopic but I strongly believe that with a weak shapely hand probably the most decision of the bidding is going to be whether or not to preempt, and if so how high. Usually after a preempt we don't take another action unless invited by partner, and deciding which hands are suitable for a preempt and which are not is a tragically underdiscussed and often underdeveloped skill. In my opinion it is very difficult to draw a good dividing line between hands that should and should not open a weak 2, for example.

I at least certainly do have hands with a long suit that are too weak to open but too strong to preempt (this of course may be error on my part). To over-simplify, my personal guideline is that I preempt on a hand with a long suit and an estimated number of highly likely tricks three off whatever I am bidding if my long suit is trump (two off at unfavorable vulnerability). But in first or second seat, I do not preempt with 10+ HCP or 2 quick tricks (unless both quick tricks are in the long suit). My logic is that if partner can contribute two tricks, we have a good sacrifice against opponents’ partial and if partner can contribute only one trick, we have a good sacrifice against opponents’ game. And if partner has a strong hand, partner can estimate my tricks.

So I would neither preempt nor open on ♠ Q94 ♥ Q10852 ♦ KQ7 ♣ 4. (I think David would open that, but I wouldn’t.)

So, my original question was related to hands like the above after an auction of P, (P), 1♦, (P), ? His advice is to bid 1♥ and reserve 2♥ for hands of a different type or types.

[DavidKok]

That hand has only 12 cards, but if we add a small heart then it all falls into place. I would preempt with that the first time, but if you do not and partner opens 1♦ I think 1♥-then-2♥ is a fine description of the hand, though you may wish you had supported diamonds instead.