[mike777]

2-4-5-2 is definitely possible, even six card d suit, granted rare

Once you permitted off shape NT openings then...

In any event 5NT over 4D

[jillybean]

pescetom, on 2026-July-20, 14:01, said:

I think the next bid after 3♠ will be 3NT, which as mikeh said is not bad news.

MP

---

What are his options if you now bid 4♣?

4♠, 5♣. we have stalled.

[mike777]

 jillybean, on 2026-July-20, 18:06, said:

4♠, 5♣. we have stalled.

I don't think pass is an option

[jillybean]

---

---

[mike777]

I think after 4C-5C I might try 5H hoping to hear 5S

Not easy to find 7

[jillybean]

mike777, on 2026-July-20, 19:21, said:

I think after 4C-5C I might try 5H hoping to hear 5S

Not easy to find 7

Yes, is 5H the mastermind I referred to earlier?
Or will partner be better able to judge after 5D 5H 5S?

[mike777]

 jillybean, on 2026-July-20, 20:05, said:

Yes, is 5H the mastermind I referred to earlier?
Or will partner be better able to judge after 5D 5H 5S?

Not partner, me, I am captain not partner

[P_Marlowe]

pescetom, on 2026-July-20, 14:01, said:

I think the next bid after 3♠ will be 3NT, which as mikeh said is not bad news.

MP

---

What are his options if you now bid 4♣?

If I bid 4D, this is showing SI and asks p show controls, 4C is more likely 65 than "only" 55
and his most likely response is 4D.

I dont feel confident in getting enough out of p to be certain that 7 is good contract, the 3NT
bid showed wastage in hearts, this should not stop us from bidding 6, but I dont think I was a
lot of energy finding 7, over 4D one could try 5H.

[pescetom]

 P_Marlowe, on 2026-July-20, 23:58, said:

If I bid 4D, this is showing SI and asks p show controls, 4C is more likely 65 than "only" 55
and his most likely response is 4D.

I dont feel confident in getting enough out of p to be certain that 7 is good contract, the 3NT
bid showed wastage in hearts, this should not stop us from bidding 6, but I dont think I was a
lot of energy finding 7, over 4D one could try 5H.

This sounds a lot closer to the planet I live on, except for the jump bid
I think 4♦ pretty much has to be a SI cue fixing clubs, whether purely artificial (as I can imagine some playing) or afferming control in diamonds (as we play).
Now for us now 4♥ is automatic and we're gannin along the Scotswood Road.

[P_Marlowe]

pescetom, on 2026-July-21, 04:05, said:

This sounds a lot closer to the planet I live on, except for the jump bid
I think 4♦ pretty much has to be a SI cue fixing clubs, whether purely artificial (as I can imagine some playing) or afferming control in diamonds (as we play).
Now for us now 4♥ is automatic and we're gannin along the Blaydon Rood.

I reread what I wrote, I think that 4C already showed SI, you dont run from 3NT, (we are also playing MP, but even at IMPs),
but that 4D fixes clubs, 3NT denied a primary fit.

[pescetom]

 P_Marlowe, on 2026-July-21, 05:05, said:

I reread what I wrote, I think that 4C already showed SI, you dont run from 3NT, (we are also playing MP, but even at IMPs),
but that 4D fixes clubs, 3NT denied a primary fit.

Sure.
4C shows SI in clubs.
Now 4D fixes clubs and shows (at least) willingness to collaborate in slam investigation: whether or not we want to call that SI too is basically semantics. He certainly wasn't interested in slam on his own, but he didn't refuse to collaborate (or show that he was unable to collaborate) either.

[mw64ahw]

just dug this up

https://bridgewinner...level-pre-empt/

[mike777]

Face it, trying to offer two suits and a grand slam try is just tough after high level preemptive bids.


Just not a high frequency situation so don't sweat it.

[pescetom]

 mw64ahw, on 2026-July-21, 07:15, said:

just dug this up

https://bridgewinner...level-pre-empt/

Well done, thanks.
I'll take away the certainty of playing 3♠ over 3♥ as GF and the idea of playing transfers over a natural 4♣.

[jillybean]

Any advances on this over the last 11 years?

[pescetom]

 mike777, on 2026-July-21, 07:28, said:

Face it, trying to offer two suits and a grand slam try is just tough after high level preemptive bids.


Just not a high frequency situation so don't sweat it.

No sweat for me this time, I didn't even play this board: just noticed it from the national sim I skipped to watch England commit suicide. In my club, the top was one 3NT+2 with the others in 5♠-1 or 4♠= and even one 4♠-1.
I would hate to miss the clubs slam.
At national level, 5% bid and made 6♣, 3% 6NT, 28% went down in some contract.

[mikeh]

jillybean, on 2026-July-21, 09:09, said:

Any advances on this over the last 11 years?

I’ve been playing this for a few years now:

Over 3C:

X takeout
3D 5+ hearts, invite+
3H 5+ spades, invite+
3S 5+ diamonds, gf
4D/4H texas


Over 3D:

X takeout
3H 5+ spades, invite+
3S 5+ hearts, gf
No texas, 4D is pick a major