[Flame]

I just read this http://www.masterpoi...omp_bidding.pdf
its nice and intresting but it come to me as a big surprise to what extreme he takes the 4 cards overcalls I also woder if this view is common between experts.
Examples:
RHO open 1D and you hold:
♠A J 8 5 ♥ 10 ♦A 8 ♣ A Q 10 8 4 2
♠ A 7 ♥ K J 9 6 ♦ J 9 ♣ A K Q 10 3
♠ K 9 ♥ K Q 8 6 ♦ J 7 ♣A J 10 9 6

With all those hands he recommand a major suit overcall.

[han]

Great stuff, thanks for the link. Is there anybody here who plays the style Miles recommends? I don't but I think it may very well be "right".

[P_Marlowe]

Hannie, on Jul 3 2006, 05:46 AM, said:

Great stuff, thanks for the link. Is there anybody here who plays the style Miles recommends? I don't but I think it may very well be "right".

we tried it, but forget to remember, that

(1C) - 1H - ...

followed by a cheap diamond showed
longer diamond than hearts.

What we do, is playing the Michaels Cue
as 5-4, which is a corollary to his propositions.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: What ever you think about 4 card overcall, the book is a great
read.

[Codo]

Some month ago we had a Raptor NT hate thread in this forum. This did not convince me, so I can still bid 1 NT with all the given hands.

But if you dislike raptor and many do, I think you need to use 4 card overcalls, or elc or cuebids that show just 5/4 frequently.

[pbleighton]

I overcall with 4 cards, but I am not as choosy as Miles

Peter

[matmat]

heh. i like four card overcalls. but note that in all three cases that you have given, the ovarcaller has the strength to make a second call and a place to run to when doubled (not to mention a likely source of tricks even if he ends up in a moysian fit at game level...)

[keylime]

I use four card overcalls quite a bit with my overcall structure, especially with spades.

[Flame]

matmat, on Jul 3 2006, 11:45 PM, said:

heh. i like four card overcalls. but note that in all three cases that you have given, the ovarcaller has the strength to make a second call and a place to run to when doubled (not to mention a likely source of tricks even if he ends up in a moysian fit at game level...)

Its not that the major isnt good, the problem is that the minor is better this can cause some problems. we could miss a 10 card fit in the minor after my LHO show his major and his partner support. We could just play go down 1 in the major instead of +1 in a minor contract. Another problem could be the lead, its likely that partner will be on lead and with some of those hands i prefer a club lead to a major lead.

[awm]

I think Marshall's more or less alone with his canape overcall ideas. At the very least, he takes it to an extreme that most experts disagree with.

On the other hand, these hands with a four card major and longer minor are one of the biggest issues in overcalling. If you bid the minor, the major suit (and a possible major suit game) is often lost. If you bid the major, it's hard to distinguish the relative suit lengths (presumably you're also going to bid spades and rebid clubs with 5♠+4♣). Various conventional treatments have been invented to try to deal with these hands, including raptor (but you lose the natural 1NT call), roman jumps (but you lose your weak jump shifts), and top+bottom cues (you lose michaels, and it only handles one of two suit combos).

[Winstonm]

I think Marshall must be taken with a grain of salt as well. According to Hamman's book, Miles has always been more interested in the esoteric, the bid or play for posterity sake than the more practical bid or play. He also played in the same era and place as Hamman and Kantar so his background is strongly in 4-card majors.

The negatives to this style come when you hold: AKxx, xxx, x, AKJxx and the auction starts 1H-1S-3H-P-P-? and partner holds Qx, x, xxxx, Qxxxx because if you bid 4C he will hold: xxx, x, QJxxxxx, xx.

[hrothgar]

awm, on Jul 4 2006, 11:09 AM, said:

I think Marshall's more or less alone with his canape overcall ideas. At the very least, he takes it to an extreme that most experts disagree with.

As I recall, the several of the top Italian pairs were plaing a canape overcall style a couple years back. They'd frequent overcall a three card suit.

Not sure why they backed away from this...

[willow23]

Interesting idea; wise to let your partner know though..

I play with people who overcall with 4 card majors and often a 5 carder is lurking in the hand of the opponents..

If you do ..warn partner ..an aggressive bidder like myself have jumped to the 3 level with 4 cards oppostie such an overcall (LOTT) and found myself in sticky 5-0 situations..

Nothing in cast in stone in bridge, it does have some benefits when opps do not know how to handle it:)

Almost like the anoying ACOL system..

Cheers