[hrothgar]

Here's a hand that cropped up in a tournament this morning. I was curious what folks might bid.

You hold

♠ J863
♥ AT5
♦ 864
♣ KJ3

The auction starts

(1♥) - X - (P) - ???

What's your call?

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I would go with 1NT.

1S is not a very encouraging call.
and I dont like 2S, so 1NT it is,
we will loose the spades, but may
reach game.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mike777]

1nt.

The bidding may not be over yet. Plan to bid 2s over 2h by lho.

[pbleighton]

In response to partner's takeout double, I will jump with 9. It's a lousy 9, but I still bid 2S. It's close, I wouldn't criticize 1S or 1NT.

Peter

[kenrexford]

I would bid 1♠, although I can understand and sympathize with 1NT.

This is easier with Herbert Negatives, somewhat. Strangely, the way I played Herbert Neg's (have not done this for many years, though) would be 1NT as a spade positive.

[helene_t]

2♠, 3NT is unlikely to be the best game if partner has his usual four spades. We can always get back to notrump if he hasn't four spades, and he has extras.

[paulg]

I'd bid 1♠. Easier if you are playing courtesy raises when you'd be able to make a try if partner has 4-card support and a fair hand. Otherwise the slight underbid will make it easier to compete later on.

[foo]

kenrexford, on Jul 2 2007, 11:03 AM, said:

I would bid 1♠, although I can understand and sympathize with 1N.

This is easier with Herbert Negatives, somewhat.  Strangely, the way I played Herbert Neg's (have not done this for many years, though) would be 1NT as a spade positive.

You hold
♠ J863 ♥ AT5 ♦ 864 ♣ KJ3

Agreed. This might be 9 HCP, but's it's a miserable hand regardless.
I'm downgrading it considerably given the 10 loser 4333 shape.

Even if We have ♠ fit, this hand may very well play better in NT than ♠'s, but I want to toss some cold water on this auction rather than risking pd bidding a thin game that rates to be a disaster.

[gwnn]

helene_t, on Jul 2 2007, 06:10 PM, said:

2♠, 3NT is unlikely to be the best game if partner has his usual four spades. We can always get back to notrump if he hasn't four spades, and he has extras.

100% agree

[awm]

I'd go with 1♠. Note that game isn't great opposite a hand like:

♠KQxx ♥x ♦Axxx ♣Axxx

There are certainly some chances, but the club queen is probably more likely to be with opener than not, and even if club queen is on you will likely need spades to break. I would bid 4♠ over 2♠ with a hand like the one above without really thinking about it.

I have no real interest in notrump holding a stopper of ace-third opposite probable shortness and most entries in the long heart hand.

[kenberg]

I'm going to bid a spade. I don't know if it's right but it's my call. I have (I hope it's enough on topic to be OK) a follow-up question. If I bid 1S and if, say, lho bids 2H and it goes pass-pass, does a double now show approximately this? ie some defense, not particularly for penalties, showing four not five spades and more values than have been expressed so far?

When I bid 1S it is with the expectation that a later double by me of 2H (from either opponent) would be treated this way. If this isn't so, trouble is brewing.

[han]

Interesting problem, I think I'm bidding 2S.

I agree that this is a poor 9-count but if partner has heart shortness then the 4333 is not a big minus. Also, all of our points are potentially working (compare with heart king and club ace for instance, which would definitely be worse).

My second choice is 1S and I think that 1NT is reasonable as well. So I don't have a strong preference.

[kenrexford]

awm, on Jul 2 2007, 11:42 AM, said:

I'd go with 1♠. Note that game isn't great opposite a hand like:

♠KQxx ♥x ♦Axxx ♣Axxx

Yeah, and partner would clearly make a courtesy raise to 2♠ with that hand.

I suppose this questions begs a second question. What are folks making raises on these days? If you are jumping to 2♠ with this junk, then you must not have any courtesy raises. Heck, it would take a lot to get me to bid again even after a courtesy raise of spades. I may very well do it, but with great fear and loathing.

[pclayton]

I think there are two reasonable approaches.

Start with 1S and double 2H (assuming they bid it, which seems likely) if thats defined as cooperative.

Start with 1N and compete to 2S over 2H.

I like the second approach. This hand looks notrumpy with the 4333 and the H 10.

[Codo]

In SEF this is an easy 2 spade, not even close to 1 Spade.

With the club and HEart holding switched, a 1 NT bid looks like an idea but with this hand 2 Spade is easy

[cherdano]

kenrexford, on Jul 2 2007, 11:47 AM, said:

awm, on Jul 2 2007, 11:42 AM, said:

I'd go with 1♠. Note that game isn't great opposite a hand like:

♠KQxx ♥x ♦Axxx ♣Axxx

Yeah, and partner would clearly make a courtesy raise to 2♠ with that hand.

I suppose this questions begs a second question. What are folks making raises on these days? If you are jumping to 2♠ with this junk, then you must not have any courtesy raises. Heck, it would take a lot to get me to bid again even after a courtesy raise of spades. I may very well do it, but with great fear and loathing.

I don't think this is close to a raise in standard.
(I.e. there is no "courtesy raise" in standard.)

[skjaeran]

To me this is a rather obvious 1♠ response. 1NT is good on values, but we can still get to NT later if the bidding goes on.

I'm very comfortable if I'm later able to make a "values" double.

2♠ is a clear overbid with this holding IMHO, though I know many would choose that.

[hrothgar]

For what its worth, I'm in the 1♠ camp