[han]

A friend from Argentina gave me this hand:

Scoring: IMP

(2D) - Dbl - (2S) - ??

---

2D was weak, what's your call?

[Apollo81]

I'd just pass

[mike777]

3D

I would ask if they play 2s forcing, if so I would pass, if not then 3D.

[pclayton]

I suppose this is an automatic 3N.

[mikeh]

Without knowing if 2♠ is forcing, this is a guess. If it is forcing, then we have an easy pass. If it is not, then we have a much more unpleasant decision. LHO is now going to get off to a spade lead against 3N, and we need a LOT of stuff over there to bring home 9 tricks.

I suppose I could try 3♦, but what does it mean? If it means: I have diamonds stopped, bid 3N with a spade stopper... well, that's fine but most would assume that the takeout double promised spades stopped, so using 3♦ for that purpose is low frequency. If it means: I have to much to pass, and double is penalty (which it is) then we are going to be hearing 3♥ from partner. As it is, I don't think I've ever seen 3♦ in this auction, and I know I haven't discussed it with any partner. Which makes it dangerous because we won't know whether we are on the same page until after the auction is over.

But if we pass, then partner will be almost unable to bid...even if we passed completely in tempo.

If it is non-forcing, I will bid 3N...and pray. We are red at imps...hope partner is not AQxx KJxx x Kxxx

The good news is that they probably can't double even when we are 4 down

[jdonn]

2NT, I think 3NT is a massive overbid. They are going to lead a spade right through partner, and our diamonds are worth nothing for offense so we lack tricks. I'm really not at all excited about the chances of 2NT making if partner is minimum.

[han]

OK, so we have pass, 3D, automatic 3NT, difficult 3NT and 2NT. Let me add my double to the list.

[gwnn]

Hannie, on Nov 13 2007, 07:36 AM, said:

OK, so we have pass, 3D, automatic 3NT, difficult 3NT and 2NT. Let me add my double to the list.

isnt double for penalties?

[han]

Yeah, I double for penalties.

[Free]

Looks a lot like a hand from honour division in Belgium last year. I'd pass! I don't see where the tricks are coming from in 3NT, not even in 2NT...

[jdonn]

Hannie, on Nov 13 2007, 12:46 AM, said:

Yeah, I double for penalties.

At imps, in what might be an 8 card fit, with xx over the bidder? This seems to me like the kind of double that will be down 2 one day and making the next, not my cup of tea. I don't understand the passers either, partner can have to pass this out with 15 or 16 or more and we miss an easy game. And don't even get me started on 3♦....

Can anyone tell me what is wrong with a natural 2NT that accurately shows our values and the best strain for our side? If you think it's an underbid I disagree but at least I understand the point you are trying to make, otherwise I can see no reason not to.

[andy_h]

2nt

[gnasher]

If 2S is non-forcing, I double and lead HA. Whilst it's possible that this will make, +300 or +500 seems a lot more likely. I'm not expecting declarer to be able to get to dummy to cash DAK or take spade finesses.

Suppose that partner has Kxx Kxxx x Kxxxx and RHO has 6403 or 7402 - we should still beat it at least one. Give partner better spades or enough high cards for his takeout double and we'll beat it comfortably.

The worst case is if LHO has HK and DAK, and diamonds are 6=5=2=0. That would be an unusual weak two bid, but even then we would still be OK if we could take three clubs and two trumps.

3NT might make, especially if partner has five clubs, but it could also be hopeless. If I were to look for 3NT, I'd bid whichever cue bid says "I have a diamond stop, do you have a spade stop?" Surely right-siding this matters more than getting the level right?

[TheoKole]

I would ask if the 2 ♠ bid is forcing or not. If not I would either double or bid 2 NT. Probably double. I just can't see where the tricks are coming from in 2 or 3 NT.

If 2 spades is forcing then I have an easy pass, to see where they are going to end up, I will almost always double any final contract.

If I know the players are stealers I would double and lead the A of ♥.
Even if we have 3NT on ice, we will probably get more by doubling on this hand.

Theo

[FrancesHinden]

jdonn, on Nov 13 2007, 07:55 AM, said:

Can anyone tell me what is wrong with a natural 2NT that accurately shows our values and the best strain for our side? If you think it's an underbid I disagree but at least I understand the point you are trying to make, otherwise I can see no reason not to.

Well, I for one wouldn't play 2NT as natural here, I would play it as lebensohl to compete in 3rounded, with 3rounded directly as stronger.

I like double more if I believed that RHO was just having a laugh, but he's so obviously short in diamonds that 2S is likely to making quite a few tricks.

At matchpoints I agree with double.

At imps I think I just pass and hope for the best. If partner has a 15-16 count it's not obvious we are making game.

[Gerben42]

if NF: 2NT
if F: Pass

[Codo]

2 NT had been my choice if this had been natural. It is not for me.
But I canot bring myself to pass, SO I try 3 NT too. Yes this is an overbid, but I had been down before....

Of course, if 2 Spade was forcing, this is the easiest pass ever.

I would not ask, they had alerted it if it had been nf.

And if I ask now and pass then after I hear: "forcing", this is UI for my pd and will make bidding much more difficult for him.

[kfay]

I don't really know what 3♠ means here but why can't we bid that asking partner to bid 3NT or something? It looks very much to me like we want to play NT from partner's side and so maybe 3♦ is the way to get there if 3♠ doesn't say 'bid 3NT partner'. It's just as likely that RHO isn't going to be able to lead a diamond than he is and even if he can it may be a stiff honor or something like that.

I don't get why people want to pass if 2♠ is forcing. Who are we believing here, partner or opponents? Don't we want to double a forcing bid to set up our auto penalty double later? To me this is more obviously for penalty than if it goes ...(2♠)-p-(3♠)-p-(p)-X. It's obvious to me that we're doubling 3 of whatever the heck they're playing in for 9 tricks.

If it's nonforcing I get to 3NT from partner's side however we're supposed to do that and if it's forcing I double because clearly LHO bid with jack squat.

Edit: It just occurred to me that 3♠ should probably be a cuebid in support of hearts but really I have no idea if that's right or wrong.

[kfay]

jdonn, on Nov 13 2007, 12:18 AM, said:

2NT, I think 3NT is a massive overbid. They are going to lead a spade right through partner, and our diamonds are worth nothing for offense so we lack tricks. I'm really not at all excited about the chances of 2NT making if partner is minimum.

If partner's even a tad above minimum isn't he going to raise us to 3NT being the aggressive bidder that he is? In fact he'll probably worry less about the RHO with AQxx of spades thinking I must have some sort of spade stopper for this bid anyways, which I think we should have.

But I agree that 3NT is a massive overbid.

[han]

Let me make my case for doubling. Dummy has most likely AKJxxx in diamonds, so probably no other useful highcards. Either partner or declarer is void in diamonds. Declarer should have at least 6 spades and partner most likely 4 or perhaps 3 spades. So dummy has at most 2 spades (most likely 1) and therefore probably has no other shortness.

In short, dummy cannot be reached and has nothing useful for the spade contract. Moreover, we don't have to worry much about declarer sitting over partner's spade honors, it is likely that declarer will be forced to lead spades from his hand.

I will start with the heart ace, it is not unlikely that we can start with two hearts and a ruff. Then depending on partner's card we can give him a diamond ruff or take some club tricks. I think that this is going down 2 most likely (more is not impossible), while 3NT really is a long shot because we have no tricks. It is true that 2S might make on a really bad day, but if they never make a doubled partscore...