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Does This Auction Exist? What does it show?

#1 User is online   awm 

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Posted 2008-January-28, 01:14

Opponents silent:

1♦ - 1♥
1♠ - 1NT
3♠

Is this possible? If so, what kind of hand would you expect?
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
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#2 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-January-28, 01:24

Yes, I would play it shows about 16-18 with the expected shape of 5-6. Same as if I rebid 3♦ now regarding strength. 2♠ would be a 5-6 minimum.
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#3 User is offline   CSGibson 

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Posted 2008-January-28, 01:27

jdonn, on Jan 27 2008, 11:24 PM, said:

Yes, I would play it shows about 16-18 with the expected shape of 5-6. Same as if I rebid 3♦ now regarding strength. 2♠ would be a 5-6 minimum.

strong 5-6. GF if you have any sort of fit with either suit.
Chris Gibson
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#4 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2008-January-28, 01:27

awm, on Jan 28 2008, 02:14 AM, said:

Opponents silent:

1♦ - 1♥
1♠ - 1NT
3♠

Is this possible? If so, what kind of hand would you expect?

no too complicated.....unless 1nt can have 11 hcp often
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#5 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-January-28, 01:31

awm, on Jan 28 2008, 02:14 AM, said:

Opponents silent:

1♦ - 1♥
1♠ - 1NT
3♠

Is this possible? If so, what kind of hand would you expect?

ya for sure, it shows less than a jump shift but a strong hand.

I don't know if jdonn was serious about 16-18 or if he meant with shape included or something, but that is obviously going to be a jumpshift most of the time with 5-6 shape. Heck AKxxx x x AKxxxx is a jump shift and thats "14 points."

I would bid this way with KQTxx x x AKJxxx or similar. 1C 1H 1S 1N 2S could be a 10 count or something so you would have to jump with a hand that strong.
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#6 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2008-January-28, 01:34

not sure why I cannot just bid 2s with that hand but ok...

I did open yes/
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#7 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-January-28, 01:34

mike777, on Jan 28 2008, 02:34 AM, said:

not sure why I cannot just bid 2s with that hand but ok...

Because that is how you would bid KTxxx x J AQxxxx?
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#8 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2008-January-28, 01:36

Jlall, on Jan 28 2008, 02:34 AM, said:

mike777, on Jan 28 2008, 02:34 AM, said:

not sure why I cannot just bid 2s with that hand but ok...

Because that is how you would bid KTxxx x J AQxxxx?

it is...ok....geez....

I guess partner expect us to open on dist not hcp. When I get to play pick up with jlall i pass this hand first or second seat. hope to win later in bidding or in the play or defense.
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#9 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-January-28, 01:36

Obv by "16-18" i mean "the range between minimum and jump shift" which yes for this shape is going to be something like about 14-15 in actual high cards depending on the hand. Lazy explaining :mellow:
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#10 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2008-January-28, 06:37

since 1♦ denied 5 spades for me, this has to show a highly concentrated hand with 4 spades and 6 diamonds, something like AKJ10 x KQJ9xx xx
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#11 User is offline   lexlogan 

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Posted 2008-January-28, 08:07

1♦-1♥-1♠-1NT-3♠ ? A hand such as KJxxx x AKQxxx x . Opener quite properly preferred the long, strong diamonds to the weaker spades, and did not wish to force to game over 1♥ as partner might cover none of his losers whatsoever -- 7 tricks at a diamond contract would not be a shock. Responder's 1NT rebid was a bit more encouraging; his failure to rebid hearts increases the chance of 3 spades or 2+ diamonds. 3♠ is descriptive and highly encouraging if responder fits either suit.

Note that in SAYC, at least, opening the longer suit with 5-6 would be normal; and there is no reason to assume 1♦ denies 5 spades if the extent of the agreement is "SAYC" or "2/1 GF" . Some experts might prefer to open 1♠ holding xxxxx x AKQxxx A, but that would not be an overwhelming choice.
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#12 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2008-January-28, 08:54

Not really, but my first question counter question
would be an inquiry about the forcing nature
of 1S.

If the 1S bid is forcing, ... than would say that
3S just creates a game, contrary to a 2S bid,
which would just show a 6-5 hand with at most
15/16HCP.

If the 1S bid is nonforcing, I would say, that a
hand, which wants to bid 3S in the 3rd round to
create a game forcing auction, could have bid 2S
the round before.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#13 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2008-January-28, 12:46

Of course this exists, and of course it shows an invitational 5-6.
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#14 User is offline   bhall 

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Posted 2008-January-28, 13:51

It's much simpler to come at this question from responder's perspective. It simply says: I expect us to make 10 tricks with ♦ as trump, or 9 tricks with ♠ as trump, even though you have shown no fit for either suit. If responder is xx QJxxx x KJxxx, he should probably pass. Holding xx in both suits, he should prefer 4♦.

IMHO, most of the constructions people have offered would satisfy this criterion.
just plain Bill
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#15 User is online   awm 

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Posted 2008-January-28, 14:01

Here was the actual hand:

♠AJxxx
♥x
♦AKQxxxx
♣-

Responder held:

♠Tx
♥K9xx
♦T
♣QTxxxx

Responder passed 3♠, which failed by one trick.
Adam W. Meyerson
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#16 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-January-28, 15:37

:rolleyes: I would have jump shifted with that hand.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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Posted 2008-January-28, 16:56

awm, on Jan 28 2008, 03:01 PM, said:

Here was the actual hand:

♠AJxxx
♥x
♦AKQxxxx
♣-

Responder held:

♠Tx
♥K9xx
♦T
♣QTxxxx

Responder passed 3♠, which failed by one trick.

wow, 1S
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#18 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2008-January-28, 19:57

Jlall, on Jan 28 2008, 09:34 AM, said:

mike777, on Jan 28 2008, 02:34 AM, said:

not sure why I cannot just bid 2s with that hand but ok...

Because that is how you would bid KTxxx x J AQxxxx?

So 2♠ is not constructive? Without game interest I think I might as well bid 2♦, at least at matchpoints. I would interpret 2♠ as invitational.
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#19 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-January-28, 20:01

helene_t, on Jan 28 2008, 05:57 PM, said:

Jlall, on Jan 28 2008, 09:34 AM, said:

mike777, on Jan 28 2008, 02:34 AM, said:

not sure why I cannot just bid 2s with that hand but ok...

Because that is how you would bid KTxxx x J AQxxxx?

So 2♠ is not constructive? Without game interest I think I might as well bid 2♦, at least at matchpoints. I would interpret 2♠ as invitational.

I wouldn't think so. With a 5-6, game is still possible with a minimum opening, so the 5th spade needs to be shown.
"Phil" on BBO
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#20 User is offline   Apollo81 

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Posted 2008-January-29, 11:39

I bet a lot of people play 3N by South here
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