[kgr]

Scoring: IMP

---

Bidding:
1♣!-(1♦)-1♥!-(3♦)
3♥-(P)-3♠-(P)
?
1♣: You open 5542, so could be 2-card
1♥: transfer to ♠, 4+
You agree with your bids till now. What do you bid now. (should 4♣ be forcing)?

[helene_t]

3♥ was GF so 4♣ is forcing. Even if we were not in a GF I generally follow Ed Hogenkamp's principle that 4m is forcing unless it can't be.

4♣ now. I don't think my 3♥ bid denied 3 spades, I don't think p promises 6♠, and even if he has 6 spades and/or 3 hearts I think we belong in clubs.

[FrancesHinden]

I would bid 4C now.
I don't really care if it's forcing or not - if partner passes, we won't have missed game.

[hrothgar]

I would have opened 5♣ in first seat...

[Cascade]

hrothgar, on Feb 18 2008, 09:50 AM, said:

I would have opened 5♣ in first seat...

How much of your hand does this show?

I don't mind good 5minor pre-empts but they need to be reasonably narrow range otherwise you will miss a lot of slams.

[Cascade]

I can't see how 4♣ can be anything other than forcing.

I'm not sure about 3♥ on the previous round but that might depend on partnership expectation.

What would double have shown?

Is there any danger that partner will think that 3♥ is a 5-6 hand?

[helene_t]

hrothgar, on Feb 17 2008, 09:50 PM, said:

I would have opened 5♣ in first seat...

Naah, not at these colors. I might open 5♣ at favorable.

[skjaeran]

I'd rebid 4♣ now. That's forcing to me.

Opening this hand 5♣ is...... I haven't got words for that. To me bridge is a partnership game. This isn't close to a 5♣ opening at any colours. I don't think I'd contemplate that even if I were absolutely desperate.

[Fluffy]

I join the 4♣ club.

[andy_h]

skaeran, on Feb 17 2008, 05:48 PM, said:

I'd rebid 4♣ now. That's forcing to me.

Opening this hand 5♣ is......

Agree.

[kgr]

---

I did bid 5♣ now.
LHO did lead ♠8 for RHO's ♠T and RHO continued with the A and a small ♠, ruffed high by me (LHO disacarding a ♦) and I followed with high ♣ taken by LHO with the A.
LHO now played a ♦, ruffed by me and a ♣ to the J, RHO discarding a ♦.
As LHO still had a ♣ I tried an unsuccesful finesse of the ♥T for 5♣-2.

[hrothgar]

Cascade, on Feb 18 2008, 01:29 AM, said:

hrothgar, on Feb 18 2008, 09:50 AM, said:

I would have opened 5♣ in first seat...

How much of your hand does this show?

I don't mind good 5minor pre-empts but they need to be reasonably narrow range otherwise you will miss a lot of slams.

I tend to open 4M or 5m pretty much any time that I have a 7-4 pattern. (I've done it with hands quite a bit stronger than this one). I agree completely that this style isn't particularly good for find slams. However, that isn't much of a concern for me.

In my experience, its very difficult to have any kind of controlled auction when you have this much shape. I rather get the hand off my chest with a single bid and start worrying about the next board.

True, you lose some precision. At the same time, the opponents are under a lot more pressure...

[hrothgar]

skaeran, on Feb 18 2008, 01:48 AM, said:

Opening this hand 5♣ is...... I haven't got words for that. To me bridge is a partnership game.

There's the rub... I don't consider bridge a partnership game.

I have one partner, I have two opponents. I prefer that they're constantly under as much pressure as possible, even if it means that partner is in the dark some time.

Take a look a some of the discussion about two handed versus four handed bridge...

[Cascade]

hrothgar, on Feb 19 2008, 11:59 AM, said:

Cascade, on Feb 18 2008, 01:29 AM, said:

hrothgar, on Feb 18 2008, 09:50 AM, said:

I would have opened 5♣ in first seat...

How much of your hand does this show?

I don't mind good 5minor pre-empts but they need to be reasonably narrow range otherwise you will miss a lot of slams.

I tend to open 4M or 5m pretty much any time that I have a 7-4 pattern. (I've done it with hands quite a bit stronger than this one). I agree completely that this style isn't particularly good for find slams. However, that isn't much of a concern for me.

In my experience, its very difficult to have any kind of controlled auction when you have this much shape. I rather get the hand off my chest with a single bid and start worrying about the next board.

True, you lose some precision. At the same time, the opponents are under a lot more pressure...

I understand that but I want reasonable odds that the pressure is going to work to my advantage.

Look at the actual hand above. Its a 20-20 hand where noone can make anything and while it is possible that one of the opponents will think he has a bid and get into some trouble i think it is much more likely to go Pass Pass Pass and we have just succeeded in getting our side into trouble.

In my experience 5minor seems so seldom the right spot or rather so often wrong when noone can make anything that I like to put relatively strict constraints on when we open it.

[Cascade]

hrothgar, on Feb 19 2008, 12:03 PM, said:

skaeran, on Feb 18 2008, 01:48 AM, said:

Opening this hand 5♣ is...... I haven't got words for that. To me bridge is a partnership game.

There's the rub... I don't consider bridge a partnership game.

I have one partner, I have two opponents. I prefer that they're constantly under as much pressure as possible, even if it means that partner is in the dark some time.

Take a look a some of the discussion about two handed versus four handed bridge...

I'd be worried that 5♣ was playing one-handed with this hand

[Yogeshdg]

This hand should be opened 2 clubs in my opinion. Then you will easily find 5clubs.

[jdonn]

hrothgar, on Feb 18 2008, 06:03 PM, said:

I have one partner, I have two opponents.  I prefer that they're constantly under as much pressure as possible, even if it means that partner is in the dark some time.

I think this misses the point that whatever information you can provide about your hand, whether it's a little or a lot, tends to do partner a LOT more good than the opponents, far more than twice as much good. I realize this may involve letting them also give themselves information about their hands, but the simple view that you definitely have information you want to convey whereas they may or may not seems logical.

Also, similar to what Cascade said, when you have a long major there are very good odds 4 of that major is your optimal contract. There are much smaller odds this is true for 5 of your long minor, all the more when you have a major on the side.

Can you direct me to any of the discussion (I assume you mean a general online discussion over time as opposed to one particular discussion) about two vs. four handed bridge?

So I don't altogether hijack the thread, for the original question I'm sure I would have raised spades without thinking hard, but that 4♣ is a better bid that wouldn't really have occurred to me.

[Cascade]

jdonn, on Feb 19 2008, 07:37 PM, said:

Can you direct me to any of the discussion (I assume you mean a general online discussion over time as opposed to one particular discussion) about two vs. four handed bridge?

Try Cathy Chua's book "Fair Play or Foul".

[whereagles]

Opening 5♣ is not 4-handed nor 2-handed bridge. It's 1-handed bridge

Note: I'm not saying it's bad bridge. I do it all the time