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If partner has a hand where the J♦ is useful, then yes he will not move again, I was talking more about the previously quoted rock crushers like:
KJxxxxx - AKxx Ax for example where I'd definitely move again.
Would be interesting if my partner made this invite as it would contain a very slightly different connotation to what it would mean to most of the people in this thread. Our agreement is that 4♥ not only shows a heart void, but wants exclusion responses with the exception that we bid 4♠ if rock bottom minimum, so I would give my exclusion response here as while fairly minimum in the context of a wasted K♥ I'm not rock bottom minimum.
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#21
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Posted 2009-October-17, 15:19
#22
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Posted 2009-October-17, 15:33
Cyberyeti, on Oct 17 2009, 04:19 PM, said:
KJxxxxx - AKxx Ax for example where I'd definitely move again.
Totally clear error imo. Qxx KJxx xxxx Qx. And that is not some carefully picked example, it's perfectly normal for a rejection of the invitation. I even gave him an 8 count with the spade queen, next time I could be mean and give him xxx KJTxx Jxx Qx where nothing in his hand is working. It is very very very bad to go down at the 5 level on an auction with no interference.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
#23
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Posted 2009-October-17, 15:50
Some of these examples of 4H bids are terrible. For instance the 7-4 hands should often be bidding their second suit. KJxxxxx --- AKxx Ax is a good example of that, diamond queen/jack/length are good, club queen/jack/length are not really. Heck even a doubleton diamond is awesome and a doubleton club sucks. Void showing splinters, especially 1 under the trump suit will get partner to assume that his queens in the side suit are working.
Anyways I agree if you make the error of bidding 4H with that hand over 2S that bidding over 4S would be horrible.
Anyways I agree if you make the error of bidding 4H with that hand over 2S that bidding over 4S would be horrible.
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Posted 2009-October-17, 16:44
jdonn, on Oct 17 2009, 04:33 PM, said:
Cyberyeti, on Oct 17 2009, 04:19 PM, said:
KJxxxxx - AKxx Ax for example where I'd definitely move again.
Totally clear error imo. Qxx KJxx xxxx Qx. And that is not some carefully picked example, it's perfectly normal for a rejection of the invitation. I even gave him an 8 count with the spade queen, next time I could be mean and give him xxx KJTxx Jxx Qx where nothing in his hand is working. It is very very very bad to go down at the 5 level on an auction with no interference.
When I quoted something like that above, I was told I wasn't allowed to have partner 4-2 in the minors the same way as me and it was far more likely to be the other way round (in which case 5 is cold even on the hand given).
I'm also coming from a background where I wouldn't bid 2♠ on some of the example hands quoted here, there was no indication of system given or that the OP was even playing 5 card majors. I actually wouldn't bid 2♠ on the original hand given in the problem, so am somewhat shooting in the dark as to what I'm expecting to find opposite when trying to work out how the big hand bids.
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Posted 2009-October-17, 19:36
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Posted 2009-October-17, 22:30
Jlall, on Oct 17 2009, 04:50 PM, said:
Some of these examples of 4H bids are terrible. For instance the 7-4 hands should often be bidding their second suit. KJxxxxx --- AKxx Ax is a good example of that, diamond queen/jack/length are good, club queen/jack/length are not really.
That's very true. You also might belong in diamonds like Axx xxxx QJxx xx for a grand, though admittedly it would be tough to reach. But of course your only chance at all is to bid diamonds.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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Posted 2009-October-18, 03:56
I'd bid 5S because of my potential ruffing value in clubs.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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Posted 2009-October-18, 03:58
hanp, on Oct 18 2009, 05:56 AM, said:
I'd bid 5S because of my potential ruffing value in clubs.
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Posted 2009-October-18, 04:01
H_KARLUK, on Oct 17 2009, 08:36 PM, said:
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I wouldn't bid 4♥ on that hand unless I knew I was going to use my chosen methods over it.
Auction would proceed by my chosen methods:
4♥-5♣(one exclusion keycard, not rock bottom minimum)
5♦(Q♠?)-6♠(QS not K♣,K♦,A♥)
P
But I would never bid 2♠ on the weak hand with a 10 count. Our auction would go:
1♠-2♣
2N(GF, not necessarily bal, 5+♠)-3♥ (only 4♣, 4♥, not 4♦, doesn't deny 3♠)
3♠(6th one)-4♥(A/K agreeing spades 3424, unable to cue ♣/♦)
5♥(Xcl RKCB)-5N(1)
6♠
I would have to punt in the end but the probabilities are with me I think.