[jillybean]

Scoring: MP

2♣:2♦*
3♦:

---

*2♦ waiting, A or K
2♥ would be bust

[quiddity]

I'd bid 4D, planning to cuebid clubs on the next round. Maybe setting trumps early will simplify the auction.

3S can work really well if partner has 4 spades; otherwise it could be misleading. 3NT seems wrong opposite an unbalanced hand which could easily include a major suit singleton.

[jdonn]

I believe very very strongly in 4♦ here. Raise your partner! Bidding spades is misleading and usually a waste of time.

[vuroth]

4♦, especially if 3m promises extra length of strength in this sequence.

[Jlall]

yep 4D

[neilkaz]

I prefer 4♦ since you certainly have adequate support opposite a 2♣ then 3♦ opener and since you 5 card ♠ suit is weak.

[jjbrr]

The times when partner has ♠ support, I think he rates to have really good ♠ support as part of an unbalanced hand. However I think he's much more likely to have short ♠ as part of his unbalanced hand, and thus I think it's better to raise partner now. Partner almost always has 6+♦ in this auction, and raising immediately will very likely be best for our side.

Partner knows 2♣ 2♦ 3♦ auctions are pretty bad and will try to avoid them if he can, so you can be sure a raise will make him very happy.

[MinorKid]

IMO you need your partner to hold exactly ♠ AKQ(x) to let 3♠ bid worthwide, however his spades do not improve much futher even you did bid it. If he has 4,5+ ♠ he would had opened 1♦, through there's no garentee.

The other side of the coin: You also need partner to hold at least ♦AKQxx or ♦ AKxxxxx to let 4♦ bid worthwide. But it is much more likely.

I will bid 4♦ too. Planning to cue ♣.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Partner has 10 tricks, 20+HCP for 2♣ 3♦. With your ♣A and it is 11 tricks.
There is no problem to push on with 4♦, and cue ♣ to see if he returns.

[jukmoi]

I would have bid 3♠ being prepared to pass 3NT or 4S. It is MPs and 5♦ is likely to score lousy.

[rogerclee]

jukmoi, on Apr 14 2010, 10:06 PM, said:

5♦ is likely to score lousy.

This hand is about whether to bid 7N or 7D or 6N or 6D. It is not about stopping in 3N.

Also just want to add that you should be playing your partner for some shortness on this auction (obviously not always, but balanced hands should try to rebid NT instead of diamonds). Given your hand it is very likely to be in spades, but any shortness is actually pretty good for your hand.

[Mbodell]

jukmoi, on Apr 14 2010, 09:06 PM, said:

I would have bid 3♠ being prepared to pass 3NT or 4S. It is MPs and 5♦ is likely to score lousy.

I think I would have too at the table as a gut reaction. But I'm inclined to believe it is very much the wrong bid based on the responses to this thread and thinking about it more.

Some of it may be effected by the quality of partner's 2♣ call and the quality of partners 3♦ call. Playing a form where your 2♣ are sound, and are going to be extra sound knowing the bad auction of 2♣-2♦-3♦ is coming exploring for slam seems much more reasonable. If you play a style where lots of "ok" hands open 2♣ and people would bid 3♦ with random 4=2=5=2 or 4=1=5=3 or 1=4=5=3 hands that are "strongish" then you might want to try for the ♠ or nt games. Better players will be more comfortable with 1♦-1♠-2♥ auctions or 1♦-1nt-2♠ and thus their 2♣-2♦-3♦ will be more sound and better defined and you'll be playing 6♦ most of the time.

[rogerclee]

Just to add to how ridiculous passing 3N is

A AKx AKQxxx Kxx
void AKx AKQxxxx Kxx
Ax AKx AKQxxx Kx
etc etc

are all automatic 3N bids over 3S and all are cold for 7D or 7N. These examples aren't even contrived, they are totally standard hands for partner on this auction. It's actually not easy to come up with a 2C then 3D hand for opener where 3N is right.

[aguahombre]

rogerclee, on Apr 15 2010, 12:34 AM, said:

It's actually not easy to come up with a 2C then 3D hand for opener where 3N is right.

As Mbodell has said, we have to consider what partner would open 2C on (then rebid 3D); not necessarily what the sane world would.

Not that I am sane, but in our style, this start shows about ten tricks+ for diamonds and sets diamonds as trump; if NT is right, at least 5NT is ok. We don't have the "positive waiting" 2D response that the OP has, and would show our bullet over 3D --then opener makes asking bids. Without that agreement, 4D is a must.

[matmat]

aguahombre, on Apr 15 2010, 01:59 AM, said:

As Mbodell has said, we have to consider what partner would open 2C on (then rebid 3D); not necessarily what the sane world would.

if we start off with the assumption that partners calls in an auction are nonsensical or do not conform to some sort of a fairly common standard, then there is no point in discussing the following auction at all, is there?

might as well title each thread "how did partner misbid and how can we mastermind from here?"

[Codo]

I would bid spades and later raise Diamonds.

But I agree that 4 ♦ makes it easier to reach a slam, so this is the correct approach at B/I or opposite an unknown partner.

[jdonn]

Sorry I have to say that bidding 3♠ is really quite bad. You cause partner to misevaluate on what is surely a slam hand. If partner rebids 4♣ or 4♦ you can only show a diamond preference but no longer show real support. And all to bid a terrible suit where we probably don't have a fit?

It's funny that there have been a lot of "assign the blame" or "how do we get there" type postings over the years that start 2♣ - 2♦ - minor suit bid - nonraise with support, and slam is missed in the minor. And people still don't get it.

I'm not trying to attack anyone, but in the BI forum it's an important point to make. People get so hung up on bidding majors sometimes. When you are in the slam zone you virtually always will do best to play in your best fit. Remember partner avoids bidding 2♣ then 3♦ since it eats up so much room so when he does so he has a really good hand and really has good diamonds. Also remember if you bid a suit in a slam auction partner will assume your values are there, and that's a bad message to send on this hand with such a bad suit.

[aguahombre]

matmat, on Apr 15 2010, 01:12 AM, said:

aguahombre, on Apr 15 2010, 01:59 AM, said:

As Mbodell has said, we have to consider what partner would open 2C on (then rebid 3D); not necessarily what the sane world would.

if we start off with the assumption that partners calls in an auction are nonsensical or do not conform to some sort of a fairly common standard, then there is no point in discussing the following auction at all, is there?

might as well title each thread "how did partner misbid and how can we mastermind from here?"

Not helpful. What is helpful is to know what partner's 2C followed by 3D can have as a minimum. To assume it shows as strong a hand as you and I would like it to show --without discussion, and not take into account what partner might be showing can't be a good thing.

There are a lot of folks out there who abuse 2C openings with hands which should open a 1-bid. Some of them post on these fora.

[matmat]

aguahombre, on Apr 15 2010, 02:35 AM, said:

There are a lot of folks out there who abuse 2C openings with hands which should open a 1-bid.  Some of them post on these fora.

Sorry, are you saying that we should misbid because partner might not have the hand that their auction should promise?

I think that is completely inappropriate for the BI forum.

[aguahombre]

matmat, on Apr 15 2010, 01:45 AM, said:

aguahombre, on Apr 15 2010, 02:35 AM, said:

There are a lot of folks out there who abuse 2C openings with hands which should open a 1-bid.  Some of them post on these fora.

Sorry, are you saying that we should misbid because partner might not have the hand that their auction should promise?

I think that is completely inappropriate for the BI forum.

No, what I am saying is that the B/I forum is exactly the place to talk about how strong a particular auction should be ---addressing it to the very people who often use that sequence with weaker hands.

There is nothing in the above posts where I have suggested a misbid or masterminding. You made that up all by yourself.

[the hog]

♠ J8642
♥ 87
♦ T96
♣ AQ5

AKQ
A
AKxxxx
Qxx

Where do you want to be? What is the best slam? I would bid 3S over 3D. Partner knows the S suit is not that great, (even without holding the top 3 hons), due to the lack of a 2S respnse to 2C.