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Hmmm reverse, double?

#1 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2010-August-19, 05:55

I was dealt this hand at the club last night

Scoring: MP


P (1♠) 2♣ (3♠)
P  (P)  X   (P)
4♣ (4♠) ?

Do you agree with the bidding so far?, what do you do now?
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
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#2 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2010-August-19, 06:15

I would double at my first turn.

I have done enough bidding now.
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
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#3 User is offline   vuroth 

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Posted 2010-August-19, 07:16

If I pass here, how often is partner passing?
Still decidedly intermediate - don't take my guesses as authoritative.

"gwnn" said:

rule number 1 in efficient forum reading:
hanp does not always mean literally what he writes.
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#4 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2010-August-19, 07:28

Cascade, on Aug 19 2010, 07:15 AM, said:

I would double at my first turn.

I have done enough bidding now.

this gets my vote
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#5 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2010-August-19, 10:35

I didn't double first time , hoping to bid ♥'s next turn.

Scoring: MP


P (1♠) 2♣ (3♠)
P  (P)  X   (P)
4♣ (4♠) X

=4♠X+1 :D
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
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#6 User is offline   vuroth 

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Posted 2010-August-19, 10:55

jillybean, on Aug 19 2010, 11:35 AM, said:

I didn't double first time , hoping to bid ♥'s next turn.

Don't take this as expert advice, by any stretch, but...

I used to feel that way, but I'm starting to waver. If partner really answers in ♦s, well, the hand wasn't really going anywhere anyways, right?
Still decidedly intermediate - don't take my guesses as authoritative.

"gwnn" said:

rule number 1 in efficient forum reading:
hanp does not always mean literally what he writes.
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#7 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2010-August-19, 11:05

vuroth, on Aug 19 2010, 09:55 AM, said:

jillybean, on Aug 19 2010, 11:35 AM, said:

I didn't double first time , hoping to bid ♥'s next turn.

Don't take this as expert advice, by any stretch, but...

I used to feel that way, but I'm starting to waver. If partner really answers in ♦s, well, the hand wasn't really going anywhere anyways, right?

Sorry, I don't understand this. If I double and partner bids 2♦ I will bid 3♣, if he bids 2♦/2♣ I pass.
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
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#8 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-August-19, 11:09

I noticed Kit, among others, favors heavy overcalls with a plan to takeout doubles in many situations. I wonder if the 2C bid influenced East to pass 3S; I bet many times a double by you would come back around at 4♠ ---and bring different problems. Do you double again now (only your second opportunity to call) and pray not to see 5♦ from CHO?

I think you were a bit fixed that the auction wasn't:
(1S) 2C (3S) P
(4S) X (P) 5c
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#9 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-August-19, 11:14

jillybean, on Aug 19 2010, 11:05 AM, said:

if he bids 2♦/2♣ I pass.

Really? If I overcall 2C and partner bids 2D, that is encouraging --not fright. I will still be bidding while they are folding up the tables at the end of the session, with this monster.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#10 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2010-August-19, 11:48

Call me modern but I think overcalling was a fine plan. I also hate sequences where opponent mess up and we cannot see that we are about to push them into a cold game that they simply forgot to bid. Luckily as you play against stronger opponents this happens less and less.

The main lesson is that you doubled 3♠ and partner got the picture. He'll double with some defense and defend with some shape, so you should pass. In fact, partner was probably about to bid 5♣ before you doubled.
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#11 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2010-August-19, 13:59

I would pass 4♠, but your partner should have bid more last round, and the round before that.
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#12 User is offline   fingolfin3 

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Posted 2010-August-20, 11:22

If I'm North, there's no way I'm not bidding 4/5♣ with a 10+ card fit and a singleton in their suit.
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#13 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2010-August-20, 12:42

I am torn between doubling initially or overcalling, but the final X of 4♠ really is bidding the same values twice.

.. neilkaz ..
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#14 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2010-August-20, 15:08

neilkaz, on Aug 21 2010, 06:42 AM, said:

I am torn between doubling initially or overcalling, but the final X of 4♠ really is bidding the same values twice.

.. neilkaz ..

I think it is more like remembering you had a good hand at the beginning of the auction and not noticing that it has become worse (for defense) now.
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#15 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2010-August-20, 16:09

Definitely double initially! if 2C was passed out (How unlikely is that when we have 18 HCP and only 5 clubs?) I would be very worried about missing 4H.

I now see it is MPs... I would still double.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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#16 User is offline   barryallen 

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Posted 2010-August-22, 04:47

Gerben42, on Aug 19 2010, 12:48 PM, said:

Call me modern but I think overcalling was a fine plan. I also hate sequences where opponent mess up and we cannot see that we are about to push them into a cold game that they simply forgot to bid. Luckily as you play against stronger opponents this happens less and less.

The main lesson is that you doubled 3♠ and partner got the picture. He'll double with some defense and defend with some shape, so you should pass. In fact, partner was probably about to bid 5♣ before you doubled.

If you consider the bidding of 2♣, followed by the X of 3♠, followed by pass of 4♠, can you define your hand any better? I feel you have defined your hand so well, it is a relatively easy decision to leave the final decision to partner, your work is done here.
bridge is never always a game of exact, for those times it's all about percentages, partner and the opponents.
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