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Gallup Poll

Poll: Gallup Poll (46 member(s) have cast votes)

No special agreements, how would you play 4N here?

  1. Ace ask (8 votes [17.39%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.39%

  2. Quantitative (38 votes [82.61%])

    Percentage of vote: 82.61%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2010-November-15, 03:19

1♣:2N*   *no 4cM 11-12
3♠:3N
4N
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#2 User is offline   hotShot 

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Posted 2010-November-15, 04:16

Actually both options are impossible.

Since responder is limited to 11-12 a quantitative 4NT makes no sense at all.
Since no suit is set ace ask would be blatant nonsense.

With the give options quantitative seems a little less unlikely.
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#3 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-November-15, 05:33

There is a quantitative 4N available for 2N openers is there not? So only because it is a 2 point range quantitative raises still exist. If your point was that opener can't have 21, I beg to differ, especially if opener is one of those who never seem to want to open 2♣ with a two-suiter :)
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#4 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2010-November-15, 05:42

Could be 6-ace blackwood. In any case opener's most likely shape is 5116. And probably needs one of the 6 keycards for slam.
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#5 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2010-November-15, 06:08

 helene_t, on 2010-November-15, 05:42, said:

Could be 6-ace blackwood. In any case opener's most likely shape is 5116. And probably needs one of the 6 keycards for slam.
Heler_t's suggestion of Six-Ace Blackwood seems a sensible understanding -- with hands like ...
♠ AKQxx ♥ x ♦ A ♣ AQJTxx
♠ KQJx ♥ AK ♦ x ♣ KQJT9x
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#6 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2010-November-15, 08:07

ż?, Opener forgot to bid 4♣, so he is not interested in keycards, set trumps before asking aces when you can.
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#7 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-November-15, 08:22

For me this is good old blacky, quant doesn't make much sense opposite a 2-point range. Opener could bid 4♣ just to set trumps, but apparently he didn't think that was necessary. I believe he has a 5-5 or 5=1=1=6 and is just interested in Aces to bid some slam. With a 6520 he'd probably bid 4♣ setting to hear about a control in his void.
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#8 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2010-November-15, 10:57

quantitative just looks silly to me as you are asking parting do you have a good 12 versus a bad 11[why didn't you just bid 1NT]? This is IMO too narrow a range to be using this as quant with any kind of sanity. In all probabllity partner has such a good hand that he just needs to know if we have 2 controls.
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#9 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-November-15, 11:46

so Free and pooltuna what do you play 2N-p-4N as?
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#10 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2010-November-15, 12:31

 gwnn, on 2010-November-15, 11:46, said:

so Free and pooltuna what do you play 2N-p-4N as?



That's easy

♠AKT98
♥AQT
♦AT9
♣AT

is 6NT and

♠KQJ
♥KQJ2
♦KQJ
♣Q32

is pass :lol:

that is the difference between having 20 or 21 and 11 or 12 :)
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#11 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2010-November-15, 13:18

♠ AT9
♥ A98
♦ AT98
♣ T98

is 6NT and

♠ QJ2
♥ QJ2
♦ QJ32
♣ Q32

is a pass. WTP?
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#12 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-November-15, 13:27

huh? I asked you

what do you play 2N-p-4N as.

I don't see an answer.
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#13 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-November-15, 15:17

 gwnn, on 2010-November-15, 11:46, said:

so Free and pooltuna what do you play 2N-p-4N as?

Just like Gerber, it never comes up. We have found a better use for 4♣, but we don't need 4NT for something else. As a result we still play it as quant.

Note: we open good 19 to bad 21. Technically speaking it's a 2-point range, but in practice it's a 3-point range.
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#14 User is offline   gszeszycki 

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Posted 2010-November-15, 21:17

i voted quantitative but i don't think this is a typical ask if p is merely at the top of their hand.
I believe partner is trying to reach 6c and is asking us if our hand fits clubs and spades well

A good example hand might be AKxx Ax x AKxxxx

slam is pretty awful opposite xxx QJx KQxx QJx

while a grand is great opposite Qx Kxx AJxx Jxxx
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#15 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2010-November-16, 01:00

Hi,

Quatitative.

With 6-5 p can bid 4S, with 7/6-4 he can bid 4C.

And there good control rich 12HCPs and there are bad control poor
11HCP counts, so quatitative will answer your question, and p will
valuate black honors higher.

We can still play 6C, with a hand better suited for clubs p should
bid 5C, if he declines and 6C, if he accepts.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
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#16 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2010-November-16, 09:54

Quant.

Obv.

lol.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

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#17 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2010-November-16, 10:00

 han, on 2010-November-16, 09:54, said:

Quant.

Obv.

lol.


x2

P.S. - play 3♠ as shortness, not a suit.
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#18 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2010-November-16, 10:02

Quote

P.S. - play 3♠ as shortness, not a suit.


x2
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#19 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2010-November-16, 10:14

This was a hand from the sectional where I was playing with a partner I've only played with a couple of times.
I intended 4N as quantitative but knew there was a risk that it would be misunderstood. It could have been smarter to pass 3N

1♣:2N
3♠ - if I have a 2 suiter, why is this better as shortage and not the second suit?
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#20 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2010-November-16, 10:20

 jillybean, on 2010-November-16, 10:14, said:

1♣:2N
3♠ - if I have a 2 suiter, why is this better as shortage and not the second suit?

A common problem hand is 4M6♣, not sure whether to play 3NT or 5♣, maybe 6♣. It is then useful for responder to know about the singleton, with a double guard opposite the singleton it is 3NT.

5M6♣ is not so common and besides, with those hands you don't want to play 3NT anyway so you can afford to bypass 3NT when describing your hand.
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