[jschafer]

---

First time partnership, no agreements about anything.

[hotShot]

I blame North for bad cardplay.

[the hog]

What blame?

[FrancesHinden]

The problem is that South never let North into the secret that spades are trumps. How would South bid differently with a strong 3=4=2=4 shape?

[chasetb]

hotShot, on 2011-March-13, 05:05, said:

I blame North for bad cardplay.

North played horribly, that's for sure. (S)he killed all entries and didn't try to even hook the Q, which seems obvious. I would misplay the ♦, unless West is kind enough to go up with the Ace. After all, what idiot makes a vulnerable WJS 2♦ with 2-2-7-2, Q 10 9 high???

FrancesHinden, on 2011-March-13, 10:16, said:

The problem is that South never let North into the secret that spades are trumps. How would South bid differently with a strong 3=4=2=4 shape?

The major problem is that South also seems like an idiot. (S)he bid 4♣ after all. When North shows most likely 4-(3-2)-4 , South should be horrified of duplication. South should bid 4NT asking for aces or keycards (NOT 4♣), and finding 0, sign-off in 5♠ or 5NT. Even better would be 4♥ as Last Train for ♠, and ending up in 4♠.

Overall, the only person I can't blame is West. My blame is 100% North for card play, 100% South for bidding.

[kenrexford]

The bidding by South was bizarre, to some degree, but I am more curious as to how the play should go, as I think the position to be interesting.

If one ignores the inferences from the bidding, the layout is curious. Ideally, Declarer's best line will be to strip the hearts and then play toward the K-J in diamonds, hoping to win the King, as that leaves him well-placed. He simply gives up the next diamond, forcing the opponents to break clubs for him. Thus, without more, small to the King seems right.

Now, if LHO is paying attention, and if he can rely on hearts being truly eliminated (count key), he should be able to see that the elimination in hearts was probably to set up this very end position. Thus, in theory, LHO should know that Declarer is hopping King and thus should force a club guess by hopping the diamond ace himself, and then exiting with a diamond.

Thus, the heart elimination seems to force the diamond ace to pop up if it is to the left. This, of course, gets you into a spy-vs-spy scenario. Declarer should hop the King every time, to eliminate the club guess. LHO should force the club guess every time, however, which means that, in theory, Declarer should never hop the King, as small from LHO means that LHO does not have the Ace. But, then that means that LHO should duck with the Ace to induce a non-hop of the diamond King, because surely Declarer knows. Robots would blow up in this scenario.

I suppose that LHO will might vary the diamond play, to keep Declarer guessing. But, Declarer always ends up in the same two-option scenario. Option #1 is to guess the diamond king as the only guess. Option #2 is to guess the diamond Jack, which forces another guess later. So, roughly speaking, the King still seems like a 2:1 favorite over the Jack. Perhaps Declarer should only hook if he thinks LHO is good enough to spot this problem but either makes a mistake here by ducking some percentage of the time or intentionally varies some percentage of the time because LHO knows that Declarer will possibly vary himself some percentage of the time based upon this assessment.

Of course, the bidding has some impact here. Of course, as well, attacking clubs first is hopeless.

[655321]

kenrexford, on 2011-March-13, 15:38, said:

Ideally, Declarer's best line will be to strip the hearts and then play toward the K-J in diamonds, hoping to win the King, as that leaves him well-placed. He simply gives up the next diamond, forcing the opponents to break clubs for him.

However the defenders may notice that a ruff and discard doesn't help declarer.

the hog, on 2011-March-13, 05:38, said:

What blame?

The slam needs a diamond trick from KJ opposite 2 small, with the hand over the KJ having made a jump overcall in diamonds. Then, you need to find the ♣Q. Trumps 5-0 beats the slam even if everything else worked. So, even though Deep Finesse would have told you that 12 tricks are cold, in fact this turns out to be a pretty poor slam.

[the_dude]

655321, on 2011-March-13, 16:01, said:

The slam needs a diamond trick from KJ opposite 2 small, with the hand over the KJ having made a jump overcall in diamonds. Then, you need to find the ♣Q. Trumps 5-0 beats the slam even if everything else worked. So, even though Deep Finesse would have told you that 12 tricks are cold, in fact this turns out to be a pretty poor slam.

That being said, look at the South hand and then imagine you hear your partner open 1♣, then show 4 spades and a Diamond stop. Can you really blame him for bidding a slam? (how he got there notwithstanding)

[kenrexford]

[quote name='655321' timestamp='1300053662' post='534592']
However the defenders may notice that a ruff and discard doesn't help declarer.

LOL. Oops -- good point.

Much more interesting if the clubs are 3-3.

[chasetb]

the_dude, on 2011-March-14, 10:20, said:

That being said, look at the South hand and then imagine you hear your partner open 1♣, then show 4 spades and a Diamond stop. Can you really blame him for bidding a slam? (how he got there notwithstanding)

YES!!! A stop shows Ax or Kx or QJx. Like I said in my post, I'd be afraid of duplication and WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE STOPPER IS!!! So I use RKC or Blackwood to find the ♦A in a first-time partnership, and after not finding it, sign-off in 5♠.

[manudude03]

kenrexford, on 2011-March-14, 16:35, said:

Much more interesting if the clubs are 3-3.

Director! 14 clubs in this deck. Anyway, South bid way too much.