[mgoetze]

My first decision of the match:

---

[han]

I can imagine that you considered some or all of pass, double, 1NT and 2D. Pass and double seem worst, I am not sure which I dislike most. Pass not only risks missing a game, it also leaves us poorly placed for the partscore battle, and that might be more costly in the long run. I expect double to work out badly far too often, we should really avoid doubling with a doubleton spade unless we have a incredibly strong hand.

1NT is right on strength and shape, but it does seem like 3NT needs to be played from partner's side.

We have a weak suit, but 2D gets us into the auction in a reasonable way, keeping 3NT from partner's side open as an option. That would be my choice.

[han]

I suspect that mgoetze bid 1NT btw.

[mgoetze]

You are right on almost all counts, Han... only I never even considered double.

[han]

That doesn't contradict what I wrote: "some or all of".

[Fluffy]

I like han's analisys, I really dislike having just one stopper with doubleton on RHO's Major for 1NT, so I would go for 2♦.

[Phil]

I like 1N better than 2♦. 1N is right on values. 2♦ suffers from a bad suit and a wider range.

If my partner bid 2♦ I wouldn't criticize him. I would criticize pass and I would be horrified with a double.

[MrAce]

Auto 1 NT for me. I dont even consider it close.

About wrongsiding...if pd has Qx ♥ yes i am wrongsiding it, if Qxx or Jxx it really wont matter a lot. I wont go out of my way and bid 2♦ or DBL incase pd may hold Qx ♥.

EDIT: Jxx meant Jxxx, correcting after Arend's warning.

[cherdano]

MrAce, on 2012-May-29, 00:29, said:

About wrongsiding...if pd has Qx ♥ yes i am wrongsiding it, if Qxx or Jxx it really wont matter a lot.

Huh??

[MrAce]

cherdano, on 2012-May-29, 02:05, said:

Huh??

Arend, RHO opened the bidding and you have this. Assume your pd has enough strength to bid 3 NT with Qxx or Jxxx. What does this leave to your LHO ?

Your 3NT will not depend on how many ♥ tricks you make, but mostly will depend on how fast can they establish 4 heart tricks before you establish 9 tricks.

When you pd has Qxx they wont be able to set their hearts without letting you score 2 heart tricks, since you will try to protect your Q and RHO has the hcps. It wont matter most of the time which opponent led this suit.

When your pd has Jxxx (sorry now i see i posted Jxx forgetting an x ) same.

So right siding will matter when pd has Qx or Jxx (added after your reply) and when you cant take first 9 tricks, or when you cant take your Ace and lead back ♥ to rectify the count or some endplay.

Wrongsiding with Ax is not as bad as people think it is. Most people who dont want to bid 1NT here would easily bid with Axx or Axxx in their suit (without spots). Ironically these are the holdings that we need to be more concerned about wrongsiding imo. It is very hard to express our hand when hold a strong NT hand + stopper in their suit and when we dont start with NT. None of us like to bid 1NT with Ax or Axx but alternatives can be more messy imo.

As an alternative we can start 2♦ (i too think DBL is horrible) and lets assume pd has Jxx or Qx ♥ and about 9ish hcp. What will he bid ? 2 NT ? No
3♦ ? Maybe, then what shall we do ? Bid 3♥ and ask stopper when we have one and leave 3 NT behind to 4 level minor contract which looks more scary to me than 3 NT with this balanced hand and it doesnt even have a game bonus. Yes there maybe some other auctions where we can make pd declare the hand but, not starting 1NT doesnt warranth it really when it is right to play from his side.

[cherdano]

Ah ok, now I see where you are coming from. However, I don't think it is right to assume that LHO will have no entry. RHO may open the bidding with 11, partner will raise to 3NT with 9hcp (especially with stopper help such as Qxx or Jxx), leaving 5 hcp for LHO. Maybe we need to take a diamond finesse into LHO. Maybe we just need to give up a the 3rd round of diamonds to him. Or maybe the ♥ opening lead into Qxx or Jxxx gives us the additional trick that we need: if LHO leads through Jxxx, we get one heart trick and they immediately set up two, if RHO leads into Jxxx, we may have two immediate heart tricks. Maybe RHO guesses wrong whether to lead a heart or not (LHO won't guess wrong).

[MrAce]

cherdano, on 2012-May-29, 04:50, said:

Ah ok, now I see where you are coming from. However, I don't think it is right to assume that LHO will have no entry. RHO may open the bidding with 11, partner will raise to 3NT with 9hcp (especially with stopper help such as Qxx or Jxx), leaving 5 hcp for LHO. Maybe we need to take a diamond finesse into LHO. Maybe we just need to give up a the 3rd round of diamonds to him. Or maybe the ♥ opening lead into Qxx or Jxxx gives us the additional trick that we need: if LHO leads through Jxxx, we get one heart trick and they immediately set up two, if RHO leads into Jxxx, we may have two immediate heart tricks. Maybe RHO guesses wrong whether to lead a heart or not (LHO won't guess wrong).

No doubt LHO may have an entry. As declarer you can manage to work arround it most of the time. This is still nowhere close to an excuse for not bidding what we need to bid.
And if LHO has an entry, playing from pd's hand may not really help when he holds Jxx.

As i said, alternatives are even more ugly. It is not as if you are immune from wrongsiding it when you start something else than 1 NT, besides the fact that you are unlikely to catch up with sending the message that tells the values and shape of your hand. I mean a persistent poster can sit and create an auction where we can make pd bid NT with Jxx or Qx ♥ in front of overcaller perhaps, by starting something else than 1NT.

Are you asking me if i want our side to play NT from pd's hand ? Yes, of course i do. But I find it unrealistic to happen and a costly attempt. If i knew that we will rightside it most of the time by starting something else than 1NT, i would agree with you. Thats not the case and not even close imo.

Funny as it is, for example, you go out of your way and start something else, everything goes perfect in auction and you make your pd declare 3NT when he holds something like Jxx or JTx, but murphy rules kicks in and overcaller leads his suit and his pd holding Hx (when pd has Jxx) or Hxx (when pd has JTx) . Succesfully wrongsided while trying to rightsiding it