[Vampyr]

broze, on 2012-October-15, 16:53, said:

I really don't know much about ACOL despite being a Brit. What exactly does all this mean.

I recommend Eric Crowhurst Understanding Acol. I have been meaning for a long time to write a book called Misunderstanding Acol. I think there might be quite a large market...

[mgoetze]

I'm still waiting for an answer to the most important question in the OP.

32519, on 2012-October-13, 07:51, said:

Do these guys allow the 5-card major in their 1NT bid as well and then follow this up with some sort of Puppet sequence to discover the 5-card suit?

[Cyberyeti]

mgoetze, on 2012-October-15, 17:24, said:

I'm still waiting for an answer to the most important question in the OP.

Do these guys allow the 5-card major in their 1NT bid as well and then follow this up with some sort of Puppet sequence to discover the 5-card suit?

We allow 5M in 1N, but don't immediately locate it at the moment, but are looking at changing this where responder has a GF, we do already get the 5 card major into the auction in some sequences where we're accepting an invite.

A lot of weak no trump pairs don't play puppet as it tends to have the effect of making the no trumper declarer, and often at game level, responder has more so is better as declarer unlike opposite a strong no trump.

[Vampyr]

32519, on 2012-October-13, 07:51, said:

Do these guys allow the 5-card major in their 1NT bid as well and then follow this up with some sort of Puppet sequence to discover the 5-card suit?

I'm not sure who "these guys" are, but I play Acol-style and like 3♣ as 5-card Stayman.

[32519]

Vampyr, on 2012-October-14, 12:53, said:

We open 1♥ with this; this is the only hand we open a 4-card major with.

As the 4441 hand pattern is rare, does this post of yours imply that, effectively, you are playing 5-card major Acol? If yes, then you are the perfect poster to give us a list of all the differences between regular Acol and 5-card major Acol.

[Vampyr]

32519, on 2012-October-15, 23:03, said:

As the 4441 hand pattern is rare, does this post of yours imply that, effectively, you are playing 5-card major Acol?

Yes.

Quote

If yes, then you are the perfect poster to give us a list of all the differences between regular Acol and 5-card major Acol.

In the former you open 4-card majors. In the latter you open 5-card majors.

[Zelandakh]

broze, on 2012-October-15, 16:53, said:

I really don't know much about ACOL despite being a Brit. What exactly does all this mean.

Approach forcing means that bids of 2NT and 3 of a major are usually invitational and practically all NT bids are limit bids. It is the method that characterises the (at the time) revolutionary Culbertson and Acol bidding systems. The basic concept was to stop all the unnecessary jumping around that was normal in early bidding methods and have a more controlled auction.

Instead of jumping to show a few extra honours or good distribution, the jumps became reserved for very strong hands while most hands instead made constructive but non-forcing suit bids. In fact if you look at the history of bidding you will see a general trend towards more and more constructive and non-forcing responses, a trend that is arguably still going on (with overcall responses for example) although there is an even stronger trend towards transfer methods in more recent times.

Because of all the non-forcing bids, game-forcing hands could be a problem which Acol "solved" by making the default meaning for a new suit at the 3 level forcing, often needing to be manufactured on a fragment. This is the origin of the terms. You might say that this just sounds like Standard American, SEF or Forum D; and you would be right. All of these are direct descendants of the early Approach Forcing systems and have therefore incorporated most of the same principles. In other words, it is basically a fancy term for "natural bidding as most people know it".

[32519]

Vampyr, on 2012-October-15, 23:17, said:

In the former you open 4-card majors. In the latter you open 5-card majors.

I cannot believe that this is the ONLY difference between the two. A common approach that I see Acol players using is this -
2♣ = game invitational Stayman (10-12 HCP)
2♦ = game forcing Stayman (13+ HCP)
In the post below, you are listing another difference.

Vampyr, on 2012-October-15, 18:04, said:

I'm not sure who "these guys" are, but I play Acol-style and like 3♣ as 5-card Stayman.

[Vampyr]

32519, on 2012-October-19, 21:50, said:

I cannot believe that this is the ONLY difference between the two.

It is, though. The only difference between "normal" Acol players and Benji Acol players is that the former don't play Benji. When you specify "5-Card Major Acol" and "4-Card Major Acol", why should you think that there is any difference apart from the length required for a major-suit opening?

Quote

A common approach that I see Acol players using is this -
2♣ = game invitational Stayman (10-12 HCP)
2♦ = game forcing Stayman (13+ HCP)

Acol players may choose to play 2-way Stayman, but it is not "standard". Jacoby Transfers are standard now, but if you really want to explore basic Stone Age Acol, they are not part of it. And they are not permitted at rubber bridge.

Quote

In the post below, you are listing another difference.

Neither is 3♣ 5-card Stayman "standard". If you want a list of the conventions and treatments played by Acol players, get the biggest book of bidding conventions you can find. Then you will be halfway there.