[MickyB]

1D-P-3C-3H
P-P-??

1D = nat unbal or any 11-13 NT (without a 5cM)
3C = natural invitational

What would you expect bids to mean if this came up at the table? It feels like the situation would be identical playing RM Precision.

[the hog]

x for penalties? 3C is a pretty specific bid.

[MickyB]

3S 4-7 or three cards? 3N nat or 4-6 minors?

[gnasher]

Double asks for a heart stop. 3♠ is natural and more suit-oriented than double. 3NT is to play.

[PhilKing]

I'm not sure why you need any agreements for a situation where you are not really likely to bid, having supposedly shown your hand already.

By my meta agreements, double is penalties. Although you can't have a stack, you could have shortage in partner's suit and hard cards - ♠xxx ♥Axx ♦x ♣AQT9xx (call it 82% on the penalty scale where 100 equals never pull). 3NT is also natural, albeit obviously a punt based on your failure to show a game-forcing one-suiter - ♠xx ♥QJx ♦xx ♣AKJTxx. 3♠ is the only one not covered, so it's natural as well - ♠JTxx ♥x ♦x ♣AKJxxxx. Scary.

I do feel like I am the only one answering for what responder's bids mean.

[MickyB]

I was 3046, felt like if pard couldn't make a pen dbl I wanted to back in. Obviously bidding 3C on the first round can go wrong when pard is unbal but I couldn't see any sensible alternatives.

[PhilKing]

MickyB, on 2012-November-13, 06:22, said:

I was 3046, felt like if pard couldn't make a pen dbl I wanted to back in. Obviously bidding 3C on the first round can go wrong when pard is unbal but I couldn't see any sensible alternatives.

I don't think you can sensibly make an IJS on that shape, since it can work badly when he is balanced as well.

Best to stretch with 2C imo.

[MickyB]

PhilKing, on 2012-November-13, 07:02, said:

I don't think you can sensibly make an IJS on that shape, since it can work badly when he is balanced as well.

Best to stretch with 2C imo.

You really think my systemic bid with GF clubs is 2C?

My hand was only xxx - JTxx AKJxxx, so 3C already a slight stretch. 1NT felt bad and I thought 3C might keep the hearts out.

[PhilKing]

MickyB, on 2012-November-13, 07:36, said:

You really think my systemic bid with GF clubs is 2C?

My hand was only xxx - JTxx AKJxxx, so 3C already a slight stretch. 1NT felt bad and I thought 3C might keep the hearts out.

My partner would have ♠Ax ♥Qxxx ♦AKxxxx ♣x and would pass 3C making 7.

Overbidding with a major suit void is rarely terrible. If we get too high, often the opponents can make something. Who knows how many hearts they could be making?

Bidding 2♣ may not be entirely sound, but your hand has huge potential. The auction will often become competitive and 3♣, as we saw, is literally a leap into the unknown.

[gnasher]

PhilKing, on 2012-November-13, 04:30, said:

I do feel like I am the only one answering for what responder's bids mean.

There's something in what you say.

Now that I know what the sequences we're talking about, I think that:
dbl = Something like 3136
3♠ = DNE. If they weren't worth bidding before they're not worth bidding now either.
3NT = Natural, like Phil's example.

[MickyB]

I asked a top class but v.conservative player [guess who?] about 3NT and he quoted me xx Kx xx AKJxxxx, certainly made me feel like I didn't have my 3C bid initially

We play 1D:2D as WJS in hearts or GF unbal with clubs, could've led to a fun auction.

[PhilKing]

MickyB, on 2012-November-13, 08:41, said:

We play 1D:2D as WJS in hearts or GF unbal with clubs, could've led to a fun auction.

Oh lol, they may be worried 2♥ shows the blacks?

[JLOGIC]

I think 3N is natural. X I would take as wanting to bid and 3S dunno lol, I guess 4-7 in the blacks. So basically everything natural and X t/o...not very exciting but seems to work!

[JLOGIC]

gnasher, on 2012-November-13, 08:10, said:

There's something in what you say.

Now that I know what the sequences we're talking about, I think that:
dbl = Something like 3136
3♠ = DNE. If they weren't worth bidding before they're not worth bidding now either.
3NT = Natural, like Phil's example.

I think that is a little harsh on the 3S bid. If they weren't worth bidding before, but we now have a bid that shows that we didn't think they were worth bidding before, it changes the context of our bid. Sure I'd expect Jxxx --- xx AKJTxxx now or so where spades is often not right to play, but if we can show that then why not?

[Free]

I also play dbl as takeout and the rest naturalish.

Quick question: how do you guys prefer to play opener's Dbl? Penalty or takeout?

[PhilKing]

Free, on 2012-November-15, 05:13, said:

I also play dbl as takeout and the rest naturalish.

Quick question: how do you guys prefer to play opener's Dbl? Penalty or takeout?

Probably should be penalties, but my meta-agreement is that double asks for stop in this auction type.