[Flame]

Doubles are one of the hardest thing to agree apon, maybe we should make a long thread considering sequences and agrements.
Anyway i have a specific question which we had a misunderstanding about , today.
1♣ - (1♦) D (P)
2♣ - (2♦) P (P)
D
I thought its a penalty double since a major suit would have been bid already at the 1 level, but someone said its not showing diamonds but giving partner the aportunity to pass 2d double with diamonds since a double from him on 2d would be a takeout. maybe it should be something like the inverted doubles (i think you call them 2-3 double or garoozo doubles on the forum)

[pclayton]

I wouldnt think its not penalty since you are 'under' the bidder . I think dbl here shows something like: ♠Axx ♥KQx ♦ x ♣ AJxxxx.

Ask yourself this: if pard doubles 2♦ is it penalty or takeout? Takeout of course; ergo yours is takeout as well.

[keylime]

Ditto with Phil. Under the bidder, clearly takeout oriented. Asking pard to help out.

[Flame]

Nice, happy to be wrong here. ( i didnt feel good with the penalty)

[EricK]

pclayton, on Dec 31 2004, 02:03 AM, said:

I wouldnt think its not penalty since you are 'under' the bidder . I think dbl here shows something like: ♠Axx ♥KQx ♦ x ♣ AJxxxx.

Ask yourself this: if pard doubles 2♦ is it penalty or takeout? Takeout of course; ergo yours is takeout as well.

I don't understand the point of a second take out double by responder.

He has surely denied a 5 card major (else simply bid it over 1♦) and we have denied a 4 card major (else we wouldn't bid 2♣). And we will often have bid a good 3 card major instead of a 5 card club suit or a raggedy 6 card one. So what exactly is partner looking for?

If partner has a second take out double, we are going to have some length in ♦, so something like 2236 is not unlikely, and we will have to go to 3♣. But if 3♣ is right, partner could have bid it himself (he knows we almost certainly have 6 of them).

But partner may very well have a penalty double of 2♦ (eg a 4441 hand), and if we are minimum, we can't be expected to keep the bidding open on, say, a minimum 2326 hand just in case partner has that hand.

Eric

[Fluffy]

Playing on 4-3 often works at the 2 level

Some people double with 5-4 in the majors.

[EricK]

Fluffy, on Dec 31 2004, 12:21 PM, said:

Playing on 4-3 often works at the 2 level

Some people double with 5-4 in the majors.

But wouldn't opener often bid a 3 card major at the one level if he wanted to play in the 4-3 fit? If they often work at the 2 level they will work even more frequently at the 1 level!

And aren't 5-4 hands much more easily handled by bidding naturally? And if they are handled by a first round double then a second round take out double is just begging partner to pick the wrong one!

Eric