[eagles123]

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How to bid to 6 clubs?

Thanks,

Eagles

[Cyberyeti]

1N-(2♥)-3♣
4♣-4♦
4♠-5♥
6♣

with Axx, xx, Kxxx, AQxx N would bid 5N over 5♥ to show something extra with no room to cue it, which figures to be K♦ on this auction and S can bid the grand.

I am assuming you are playing lebensohl rather than Rubensohl, as it's trivial otherwise:

1N-(2♥)-2N(clubs)
3♣-4♥(voidwood)
5♦(2+Q)-5♥(grand interest)
6♣ nothing else of use

[mgoetze]

Or with Transfer Lebensohl but without Cyberyeti's 4-level EKCB convention:

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(Assuming that North's failure to bid 4♦ denied the ♦K.)

[wyman]

N/B guys...

eagles, do you play lebensohl / know what it is? If so, you bid 3-forcing-clubs, over which partner will raise to 4, and then you are on your way.

If not, you should make some kind of forcing club bid -- even if that's 4C in your system, over which partner will bid 4H to set clubs as trumps.

If you haven't introduced Lebensohl, which is an intermediate convention, it should make your short list of conventions that pretty much everyone plays nowadays. It allows you to, at the expense of some artificiality, have nonforcing and forcing bids in situations where your bidding space has been jammed (reverses, preempts, overcalls of 1N, etc).

[Cyberyeti]

wyman, on 2013-August-20, 14:07, said:

N/B guys...

eagles, do you play lebensohl / know what it is? If so, you bid 3-forcing-clubs, over which partner will raise to 4, and then you are on your way.

If not, you should make some kind of forcing club bid -- even if that's 4C in your system, over which partner will bid 4H to set clubs as trumps.

If you haven't introduced Lebensohl, which is an intermediate convention, it should make your short list of conventions that pretty much everyone plays nowadays. It allows you to, at the expense of some artificiality, have nonforcing and forcing bids in situations where your bidding space has been jammed (reverses, preempts, overcalls of 1N, etc).

If you're not playing lebensohl, 4♣ will be gerber.

I'd consider lebensohl as B rather than I these days, I think it was taught to a friend of mine towards the end of beginners classes (she certainly played it as a beginner, but might have been taught by her husband), will check when I next see her.

[wyman]

You may well be right, but xfer leb / rubensohl / erkc, etc.?

I just think it's worth acknowledging that some people don't have gadgetry available. Of course, examples like this are why some gadgetry exists!

And I think we also assume things about eagles since he's a regular here, but we should remember that other N/B's may be reading this and "playing along," so to speak.

Anyway, not trying to police or anything, just trying to be helpful in case folks missed that this was a N/B question.

edit: and actually I think the most helpful first answer here is: over 2H, you should make a forcing bid that shows clubs. For eagles (or another N/B), it might be worthwhile to sit and consider what bids he has available and which, if any, he thinks are forcing. If he doesn't have one, that's an interesting thing, and then it's reasonable to have a conversation about leb. Once we have that down, we can ask what opener should rebid, and so on. We might get into discussions about cuebidding, about voids, about ace/keycard-asking with a void, and so on. But it starts imo with "bid your hand."

[Cyberyeti]

wyman, on 2013-August-20, 14:34, said:

You may well be right, but xfer leb / rubensohl / erkc, etc.?

I just think it's worth acknowledging that some people don't have gadgetry available. Of course, examples like this are why some gadgetry exists!

And I think we also assume things about eagles since he's a regular here, but we should remember that other N/B's may be reading this and "playing along," so to speak.

Anyway, not trying to police or anything, just trying to be helpful in case folks missed that this was a N/B question.

edit: and actually I think the most helpful first answer here is: over 2H, you should make a forcing bid that shows clubs. For eagles (or another N/B), it might be worthwhile to sit and consider what bids he has available and which, if any, he thinks are forcing. If he doesn't have one, that's an interesting thing, and then it's reasonable to have a conversation about leb. Once we have that down, we can ask what opener should rebid, and so on. We might get into discussions about cuebidding, about voids, about ace/keycard-asking with a void, and so on. But it starts imo with "bid your hand."

This is why my first sequence was simple and natural.

Even if you don't normally play ERKC, some people do when the bid is a jump in opps suit, it definitely looks like a void and you'll bid the slam from there.

I agree very much with your edit text.

[eagles123]

Hi Guys,

thanks all for the replies. Yes I know Leb (although it wasn't available in this partnership, I was more looking at the hand hypothetically), I just wasn't sure how the continuations should go after 3 clubs

Cheers,

Eagles

[ahydra]

In England, for most 3C is NF! I think you have to start with 4C.

ahydra

[Cyberyeti]

ahydra, on 2013-August-21, 08:07, said:

In England, for most 3C is NF! I think you have to start with 4C.

ahydra

For 80%+ of players it's the forcing version through lebensohl even in the poor standard of club bridge I play in, and if it isn't, as I said above 4♣ is Gerber.

[StevenG]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-August-21, 11:42, said:

For 80%+ of players it's the forcing version through lebensohl even in the poor standard of club bridge I play in, and if it isn't, as I said above 4♣ is Gerber.

Norfolk club bridge must be much stronger than you think. Ordinary club players round here don't use lebensohl. It doesn't reach people's game (mostly) until they are somewhere near "advanced." (in the BBO sense).

[PhilKing]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-August-21, 11:42, said:

For 80%+ of players it's the forcing version through lebensohl even in the poor standard of club bridge I play in, and if it isn't, as I said above 4♣ is Gerber.

For the actual answer, I would suggest OP consults:

http://www.ebu.co.uk...system-file.pdf

The default agreement for those who do not play Lebensohl is that a minimum bid in a new suit is non-forcing.

BTW, the system file is an excellent base for a budding Acol partnership.

[Cyberyeti]

PhilKing, on 2013-August-21, 12:28, said:

For the actual answer, I would suggest OP consults:

http://www.ebu.co.uk...system-file.pdf

The default agreement for those who do not play Lebensohl is that a minimum bid in a new suit is non-forcing.

BTW, the system file is an excellent base for a budding Acol partnership.

I agree, but most of the people who haven't learned Leb here are the 4♣ always gerber brigade.

[PhilKing]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-August-21, 12:31, said:

I agree, but most of the people who haven't learned Leb here are the 4♣ always gerber brigade.

Why is that relevant? OP asked how to bid the hand - he didn't ask how some muppet who plays all 4♣ bids as Gerber should bid it.

[PhilKing]

eagles123, on 2013-August-20, 12:57, said:

How to bid to 6 clubs?

Thanks,

Eagles

1NT (2♥) 4♣
4♠ 6♣

4♣ is a slam try and sets clubs. 4♠ is a cue. It's important to jump on the first round, since there will often be a heart raise, so it's the last chance you have to define your ambitions.

[Cyberyeti]

PhilKing, on 2013-August-21, 12:45, said:

Why is that relevant? OP asked how to bid the hand - he didn't ask how some muppet who plays all 4♣ bids as Gerber should bid it.

Because I was suggesting your auction can't occur among at least 80% of the bridge population probably more because the bid you're trying to use doesn't exist. Either 3♣ is forcing or 4♣ is Gerber for that fraction of people with a very narrow band in ability between the two.

[eagles123]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-August-21, 11:42, said:

For 80%+ of players it's the forcing version through lebensohl even in the poor standard of club bridge I play in, and if it isn't, as I said above 4♣ is Gerber.

to be fair, yes I'm not playing top end club bridge, but nor am I playing "kitchen bridge in a club" type thing... Dunno what it means but one is ranked NGS 49.7 and the other is NGS 47.9... and I doubt many of the players would even have heard of Leb. but maybe i'm in the lowest 20%

Thanks,

Eagles