[CSGibson]

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Have anything left to say here? edit: Cross-imps (BBO)

This post has been edited by CSGibson: 2013-August-30, 13:06

[jillybean]

Yes, Pass

[Cyberyeti]

What could partner already have shown by a bid directly over 1N, wouldn't surprise me if he held ♠ Axxx and ♣ AQ and others with a stiff heart, but would he have bid a 4135 or 4144 already ?

[mikeh]

Edit: nonsense deleted: I misread the problem, thinking that we were the balancer...me bad!

[Codo]

Mike, maybe partners shape was more suitable for his balancing?

[mikeh]

Codo, on 2013-August-30, 10:59, said:

Mike, maybe partners shape was more suitable for his balancing?

Ooops....complete brainfart: I thought we had balanced!!!!

[CSGibson]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-August-30, 10:49, said:

What could partner already have shown by a bid directly over 1N, wouldn't surprise me if he held ♠ Axxx and ♣ AQ and others with a stiff heart, but would he have bid a 4135 or 4144 already ?

over 1N, we play a modified hamilton, being able to show major/minor and single-suited hands constructively, but not 3 suited or balanced hands unless appropriate for a penalty double. You have not played enough against a weak NT with this partner to discern what types of hands he may or may not choose as appropriate, but it is unlikely that he is waiting for 5-5 hands.

[akhare]

If we believe their bidding, they have ~23-24 points between them.

Would partner make a takeout X with say 54 in the blacks and 3 diamonds?

My inclination would be to Pass, but we might find a profitable +500 or better at MPs.

[DJNeill]

Pass. Sounds like LHO has a flat hand with 3H and fitting red honors. If they had a standard 1D opening (12-13 HCP), it feels like the other table or field is getting to game anyways at IMPs. If they have 10-11 flat they might go down AND not be there at the other tables which makes Pass fine. But 4S sounds like it will be doubled and we will lose 4 red tricks (or a spade and 3). So matchpoints it's a pretty clear Pass since other table/field might stop low for a safe plus while we go -200 for a zero, so we have nothing to gain really by bidding 4S. IMPs it is a closer decision.

[ggwhiz]

Pass. If they make this and the field doesn't get there we are still in the dumpster IF we go for only 500 which seems likely and -620 isn't much more, maybe 1 or 2 extra imps.

But if they go down 1 we can win 5 or 6.

[neilkaz]

I'm definitely not doubling at IMPs as I can't see where we are a fav to set them or where we can expect a 2 trick set. This is especially important on BBO where our opps could've erred earlier and where 4♥ could be the par contract.

[PhilKing]

I find it interesting that when people try and construct hands in this type of situation, they focus solely on partner's bids, whereas if one takes a wider view, it is almost inconceivable that pard has a stiff heart ...

... the opposition bidding is just not consistent with a 6-4 fit.

Anyway, I would have bid 3♠ on the previous round, rightly or wrongly, since we know they have a big fit and we are never buying it in two.





(OK - obv it will turn out they do have a 6-4 fit, but that only applies against droolers).

[benlessard]

Agree with Phil opener will compete with any hand holding 4 trumps. I dont see how can the XX setup FP.

[jdeegan]

Pass. Wtp? The auction could well be legit, in which case we might not beat 4♥. Opponents may have a nice red suit double fit with just enough high cards to bring it home. A double, in most cases, merely improves plus 50 to plus 100. Not good odds.

Maybe they screwed up in their auction? If so, let us just try to go for a plus score. The exact number is unimportant unless we get +300 or better - possible, of course, but not a high percentage possibility, imo. Since they are not playing transfer bids over their 1NT openers, one can figure that the auction at most other tables will go differently.

[FrancesHinden]

The 'P' in the wtp is that it is very likely that game is making one way or the other.
I agree that partner doesn't have a singleton heart - but this auction has all the air of a big diamond fit for the opponents.

Try giving partner

Axxx
xxx
Kx
AJxx

and RHO
xx
KQxxx
A9xxx
x

and LHO
Jxx
Axx
QJ10x
Qxx

and they are making 4H while we are one off in 4S
Swap the diamond K and A of diamonds and they are one off in 4H and we are making 4S

Opener's hand isn't really a 4H bid

So give partner AJxx xxx Kx QJxx and opener xxxx Axx QJ10x Ax and they are making 5H while we are still one off in 4H

I'm not used to seeing opponents play 10-13 NT at game all. Do you have the vulnerability right?

Give him a better hand, and it just makes it more likely that 4H is making

I agree with Phil, the 2S bid was an error (I'd have been tempted to double 2H myself).

[jdeegan]

FrancesHinden, on 2013-September-01, 12:39, said:

The 'P' in the wtp is that it is very likely that game is making one way or the other.
I agree that partner doesn't have a singleton heart - but this auction has all the air of a big diamond fit for the opponents.

Try giving partner

Axxx
xxx
Kx
AJxx

and RHO
xx
KQxxx
A9xxx
x

and LHO
Jxx
Axx
QJ10x
Qxx

and they are making 4H while we are one off in 4S
Swap the diamond K and A of diamonds and they are one off in 4H and we are making 4S

Opener's hand isn't really a 4H bid

So give partner AJxx xxx Kx QJxx and opener xxxx Axx QJ10x Ax and they are making 5H while we are still one off in 4H

I'm not used to seeing opponents play 10-13 NT at game all. Do you have the vulnerability right?

Give him a better hand, and it just makes it more likely that 4H is making

I agree with Phil, the 2S bid was an error (I'd have been tempted to double 2H myself).

Are we discussing the same bridge hand? I was responding to an auction that went 1NT on my left, pass by my partner, 2♥ on my right, pass by me, pass by LHO, double by partner, redouble by RHO, 2♠ by me, 4♥ by LHO, passed around to me. The hand you give is more or less consistent with the bidding even (just barely) up to the point where partner finds a balancing double with a doubleton diamond. But, where did LHO find his/her 4♥ bid holding perhaps the worst Kamikaze NT opener ever seen? A few legitimate possibilities for this auction may exist. This is not one of them.

[cherdano]

jdeegan, on 2013-September-01, 14:18, said:

Are we discussing the same bridge hand? I was responding to an auction that went 1NT on my left, pass by my partner, 2♥ on my right, pass by me, pass by LHO, double by partner, redouble by RHO, 2♠ by me, 4♥ by LHO, passed around to me. The hand you give is more or less consistent with the bidding even (just barely) up to the point where partner finds a balancing double with a doubleton diamond. But, where did LHO find his/her 4♥ bid holding perhaps the worst Kamikaze NT opener ever seen? A few legitimate possibilities for this auction may exist. This is not one of them.

Are we talking about the same bridge hand? The one where 1NT opener has xxxx Axx QJTx Ax??
If you don't bid 4♥ on this auction, you should really learn how to re-evaluate bridge hands on the auction.
And as a general rule, if your opinion is 100% opposite to one of the best BBF posters, it would be good idea to consider for a second that you might be the one who is wrong. Nothing wrong with being mistaken or ignorant, but it's less embarrassing if you switch off the lecturing tone before talking complete non-sense.

[PhilKing]

jdeegan, on 2013-September-01, 14:18, said:

Are we discussing the same bridge hand? I was responding to an auction that went 1NT on my left, pass by my partner, 2♥ on my right, pass by me, pass by LHO, double by partner, redouble by RHO, 2♠ by me, 4♥ by LHO, passed around to me. The hand you give is more or less consistent with the bidding even (just barely) up to the point where partner finds a balancing double with a doubleton diamond. But, where did LHO find his/her 4♥ bid holding perhaps the worst Kamikaze NT opener ever seen? A few legitimate possibilities for this auction may exist. This is not one of them.

No. You are looking at the hand where Frances gave an example where it is right to bid on even if LHO does not have anything resembling his bid. I would suggest rereading the post.

The second construction is probably nearer the truth, but I would rather make pard 4234, which means one of the opponents has done something odd. Either RHO is 64 in the reds or lefty has inexplicably delayed revealing four card support over 2♠.

[kayin801]

Phil's analysis looks spot on. Doesn't opener's bidding look consistent with something like AT9x, Kxx, AJTx, xx, and he was giving partner a chance to reopen with a X instead? But now with the 3D bid the spade A opposite partner's stiff looks good, so he bumps to game. Anyway, it's a bit scary to bid 4S, though I suppose if we can read the cards we might hold it to down 1.

[FrancesHinden]

jdeegan, on 2013-September-01, 14:18, said:

Are we discussing the same bridge hand? I was responding to an auction that went 1NT on my left, pass by my partner, 2♥ on my right, pass by me, pass by LHO, double by partner, redouble by RHO, 2♠ by me, 4♥ by LHO, passed around to me.

Obviously not. I suggest you re-read the auction.