[lycier]

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This is a odd bidding sequence.3♣ is a bad respond
1- 3♣ is a unnecessary bid unless it shows ♥ raise or mixed major raise.
2- 3♣ destroy the rules of "Majors Priority",why not 1♠,especially without ♥ fit?

[ahydra]

Does GIB play 1S as forcing here? It should definitely be bidding spades first, not clubs, but if 1S is NF then that won't do.

ahydra

[1eyedjack]

Or, it seems to me, that IF it is going to bid Clubs first, it MUST be committed to bidding Spades later.

Anyway, what is West's 4C bid all about?

[Bbradley62]

1eyedjack, on 2014-April-29, 12:20, said:

Anyway, what is West's 4C bid all about?

3♣ was forcing, so he has to do something... He's already shown his five hearts, and can't bid spades or NT naturally. 3♣ allegedly showed "twice rebiddable" clubs, meaning seven of them or six good ones, so he has tolerance for that.

[barmar]

GIB plays 1♠ as non-forcing constructive, specifically "2- H; 5+ S; 9-13 total points".

The bids that show a stronger hand are:

2♦: but a cue bid shows heart support.
2NT: but this requires 12-14 HCP, East only has 11 HCP.
2♠: this requires twice-rebiddable ♠, but East's spades are threadbare.
3♣: the club suit quality meets the requirements.

West's 4♣ is the only bid it can make that doesn't show additional length or strength somewhere. East's bid is forcing, so it has to bid something.

The ultimate cause of the problem on this hand is that GIB doesn't know that it shouldn't count shortness in partner's suit. East's hand isn't really worth 14 total points when partner overcalls 1♥. A competent human bidder would downgrade the hand.

[Bbradley62]

barmar, on 2014-April-29, 13:21, said:

The ultimate cause of the problem on this hand is that GIB doesn't know that it shouldn't count shortness in partner's suit. East's hand isn't really worth 14 total points when partner overcalls 1♥. A competent human bidder would downgrade the hand.

Change East's ♦J to ♦A. What would he bid over 1♥? He's strong enough for 2N, but the shape isn't right. The "shortness in partner's suit" problem doesn't exist with 14HCP, so would he still bid 3♣ and hear West say 4♣? Then what? They're still too high.

[steve2005]

Why is GIB considering this a forcing hand? no fit has been found and worse you have a void in partner's suit, this could very well be a misfit. Bidding 3♣ looks like it pretty well ends looking for a fit.

Should bid 1♠ so its non-forcing if partner cant bid over it you probably haven't missed anything

[johnu]

ahydra, on 2014-April-29, 09:54, said:

Does GIB play 1S as forcing here? It should definitely be bidding spades first, not clubs, but if 1S is NF then that won't do.

ahydra

Why doesn't 1♠ not forcing work? With a total misfit for hearts, if partner can't bid over 1♠, where are you going?

What's hopeless about GIB bidding 3♣ (besides bypassing a decent 5 card spade suit which by itself is a standalone hopeless bid) is counting shortness points in hearts which is partner's suit. If anything, it should subtract points when short in partner's suit.

[Stephen Tu]

barmar, on 2014-April-29, 13:21, said:

GIB plays 1♠ as non-forcing constructive, specifically "2- H; 5+ S; 9-13 total points".

The ultimate cause of the problem on this hand is that GIB doesn't know that it shouldn't count shortness in partner's suit. East's hand isn't really worth 14 total points when partner overcalls 1♥. A competent human bidder would downgrade the hand.

I don't see why 1♠ should be limited to 13 total points. When 1♥ can be an 8 count, I'd want maybe 16+ total points, 15+ HCP before I felt I was too strong for 1♠. If game is possible opposite 14 total points, the overcaller should find a raise or something.