[Fluffy]

This 2 come from the JEC match as well. I guessed both wrong. What would you do?

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[MrAce]

1-Pass
2-If I have 2♣ for majors available then I would bid. If not pass.

[hotShot]

I think I would pass on both.

These hands it seems are not ours.

[eagles123]

First X

second Pass


Eagles

[dboxley]

Trying to reply before looking at the other replies...

Pass

Whatever major suit takeout I am playing

[gnasher]

I don't think any guesswork is required: both look like automatic passes to me.

On the first one even thinking about bidding is horrible. It's a balanced 9-count with an ace in the wrong suit. Double is very likely to turn a plus score into a minus. To double here you should have something like Qxxx A10x Kxxxx x.

On the second, I do at least have some shape, but I have hardly any high cards. I know that at best we have about half the strength, and we might have rather less. Given that, it doesn't seem very likely that I'll be allowed to make two of a major - if it's making, either the opponents will compete to three of a minor and make that, or partner will invite game and get us too high. And the downside of bidding is quite high: if there's no fit and somebody manages to double us, it's likely to cost 300.

[whereagles]

pass, 2♣ majors

[gszes]

PASS
The bidding has made it quite clear to partner what our approximate
hand shape/power is and they did not feel compelled to make a call-I see
no reason to assume they are wrong since our hand looks exactly like any
reasonable approximation p may make.

Even though we know p has a min of 14 AND we have a system that shows both
majors our suits just do not have the internediates needed to make this
aggressive bid with this pile of cheese safe. Our target zone is small
where p hand is good enough to make out bid reasonable but not so good
they are tempted to raise and get us into real trouble, There is also the
very real risk the opps might back into 3n ickkk so with little reward
and a lot of risk

PASS

[SteveMoe]

Pass the first.
Show both Majors in the second. Partner rates to have about 15.5 HCP on this hand. Reopen should be automatic on as little as 2 distribution points.

[aguahombre]

MrAce, on 2014-May-18, 10:26, said:

1-Pass
2-If I have 2♣ for majors available then I would bid. If not pass.

That is a good point. We are saved here from balancing for the majors, because I guarantee CHO will hold 2-2-6-3 and pass my 2♦.

[the hog]

Pass both of course. This is straightforward.The first hand is rubbish, the second has no cards.

[Fluffy]

On the first one partner had 4432 11 count, 3♥ went -200 against trumps 5-1. This oculd had been doubled by other players, although then he might retreat to spades which is also -200.

To get -200 only partner found an interesting endplay:

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On this diagram East is on lead and plays ♥J. To avoid losing ♦K you need to endplay East twice, and the way to do it is counterintuitive to me, you've got to play trumps and not your spade winner.

-200 lost 3 to 110 at the other table.


The second one catches partner with a nice looking 14 count with a 4 card major, even if he gets excited 3♥ should make. passing lost 6 or 7 don't remember.

[mikeh]

Fluffy, on 2014-May-20, 00:11, said:

On the first one partner had 4432 11 count, 3♥ went -200 against trumps 5-1. This oculd had been doubled by other players, although then he might retreat to spades which is also -200.

To get -200 only partner found an interesting endplay:

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On this diagram East is on lead and plays ♥J. To avoid losing ♦K you need to endplay East twice, and the way to do it is counterintuitive to me, you've got to play trumps and not your spade winner.

-200 lost 3 to 110 at the other table.


The second one catches partner with a nice looking 14 count with a 4 card major, even if he gets excited 3♥ should make. passing lost 6 or 7 don't remember.

I looked at the hands, thought both were automatic passes, read the thread to see if anyone could justify bidding, saw and upvoted andy's answer and remain thoroughly unconvinced by any of the bidders and the actual hand result doesn't change my mind.

I'd need to do or see a simulation before I'd reconsider the second one. To me, balancing is trying to hit a narrow target. We want partner to fit a major, when there is no compelling reason why he should, and we want him to hold enough hcp, in the right places, to make a partscore and not so much that he will overbid. Meanwhile, if RHO is sitting there with some 4432, both majors, and 6-7 hcp, we may be about to go 500 against 120.

I can see balancing at mps more. Partner will play me for less, will not stretch for game as much, and the occasional -500 is just a board, of the same effect as leaking a trick on defence.

[manudude03]

I think it is pretty important to know if double from partner on the second would have been penalty, if not, the case for bidding would be a lot stronger. The first is an automatic pass.

[NickRW]

The 1st one is a pass for me.

At MPs, and at these colours, fortune favours the brave, so I can stomach any call that shows both majors on the 2nd. However, I admit that even then I'd probably just look at my lack of high cards and actually pass in practice. Change the form of scoring or the colours in any way then pass seems clear to me.

Nick

[Fluffy]

NickRW, on 2014-May-23, 04:21, said:

The 1st one is a pass for me.

At MPs, and at these colours, fortune favours the brave, so I can stomach any call that shows both majors on the 2nd. However, I admit that even then I'd probably just look at my lack of high cards and actually pass in practice. Change the form of scoring or the colours in any way then pass seems clear to me.

Nick

This is IMPs, are you saying that you are more likely to reopen at IMPs than MPs?

[NickRW]

Fluffy, on 2014-May-23, 05:54, said:

This is IMPs, are you saying that you are more likely to reopen at IMPs than MPs?

No, I'm saying I'd more likely reopen at MPs - but even then...

Not sure what I was thinking about when I said "on the 2nd" - looks like I made my answer confusing. It is what comes of doodling an answer when I should be working!

[dboxley]

the hog, on 2014-May-19, 23:13, said:

Pass both of course. This is straightforward.The first hand is rubbish, the second has no cards.

I agree with you on the first hand but on the second, having "no cards" shouldn't be a problem as partner has them, you have the suits. There are no guarantees but with this much shape in the majors I wouldn't even consider passing.