[jjbrr]

he was just hungry for

wait for it...

an italian sub.

[gwnn]

billw55, on 2014-June-24, 13:01, said:

I thought it was barely a foul, not even a yellow.

Sorry but you're way off here. This is not kickboxing. The Italian guy knew full well that that challenge is dangerous and had nothing to do with the ball. 100% clear red for me.

goal.com, eurosport.com, and the Dutch commentators/experts all thought it was a clear sending-off, for what it's worth.

edit: the Romanian newspaper also, however the Hungarian one said it was an "interesting" decision.

edit 2: some more reaction, along a very convincing photo, here: http://bleacherrepor...-2014-world-cup

Of course Suarez should have been sent off. But this red card was every bit as clear to me.

BTW, there should have been a penalty in the first half on Cavani being held from behind on a cross. It's just that referees never give these even though holding someone with both arms impedes them more than pulling their shirt with one hand.

This post has been edited by gwnn: 2014-June-24, 13:24

[Aberlour10]

gwnn, on 2014-June-24, 13:08, said:

Sorry but you're way off here. This is not kickboxing. The Italian guy knew full well that that challenge is dangerous and had nothing to do with the ball. 100% clear red for me.

goal.com, eurosport.com, and the Dutch commentators/experts all thought it was a clear sending-off, for what it's worth.

strange

geman tv, german commentators/experts. german online media, all agreed this was never red one.

Balotelli did the same in the 1st half, he did not get even a yellow

[Cyberyeti]

gwnn, on 2014-June-24, 13:08, said:

Sorry but you're way off here. This is not kickboxing. The Italian guy knew full well that that challenge is dangerous and had nothing to do with the ball. 100% clear red for me.

goal.com, eurosport.com, and the Dutch commentators/experts all thought it was a clear sending-off, for what it's worth.

edit: the Romanian newspaper also, however the Hungarian one said it was an "interesting" decision.

BBC say the challenge was studs up so was a red.

Quote

Marchisio's studs were raised and made contact with the Uruguay midfielder close to his knee, leaving the referee with no option but to show him the red card.

Of course Godin who scored the goal should have been suspended for the elbow in the England game.

[gwnn]

Cyberyeti, on 2014-June-24, 13:17, said:

Of course Godin who scored the goal should have been suspended for the elbow in the England game.

And who knows, his replacements could have scored 5 goals. Or imagine what had happened if Balotelli's parents never abandon him in the hospital.

[billw55]

gwnn, on 2014-June-24, 13:08, said:

Sorry but you're way off here. This is not kickboxing. The Italian guy knew full well that that challenge is dangerous and had nothing to do with the ball. 100% clear red for me.

Wait, are we talking about the same play? Balotelli's yellow looked like kickboxing, and maybe could have been a red IMO. But the red on Marchisio? I looked again at the video, and it does look like he raised his foot a little, but not even above the knee. OK, I guess can see yellow for that. But if they are giving a red for one of these plays, I would give it to Balotelli for sure. Soccer officiating always seems strange to me, maybe I just don't understand it well enough.

[gwnn]

Aberlour10, on 2014-June-24, 13:16, said:

Balotelli did the same in the 1st half, he did not get even a yellow

Tell me the minute and I can check. I saw the first half and saw nothing.

[gwnn]

billw55, on 2014-June-24, 13:27, said:

Wait, are we talking about the same play? Balotelli's yellow looked like kickboxing, and maybe could have been a red IMO. But the red on Marchisio? I looked again at the video, and it does look like he raised his foot a little, but not even above the knee. OK, I guess can see yellow for that. But if they are giving a red for one of these plays, I would give it to Balotelli for sure. Soccer officiating always seems strange to me, maybe I just don't understand it well enough.

It's not how high he raises his foot, it's what he's doing with it. It's just a cynical stamp, nothing to do with the ball, and he knows exactly what he is doing.

[gwnn]

Aha, saw the Balotelli card now. How can you possibly think that he "did the same"? He jumped for the ball and kicked someone accidentally in the process. It is still a dangerous action so I agree with the yellow. But you are saying he did not get a yellow, which minute was that?

[Aberlour10]

gwnn, on 2014-June-24, 13:27, said:

Tell me the minute and I can check. I saw the first half and saw nothing.

Dont know the min. He flew very hig with body and leg into the U-player. A very dangerous move for me.

[gwnn]

Aberlour10, on 2014-June-24, 13:34, said:

Dont know the min. He flew very hig with body and leg into the U-player. A very dangerous move for me.

And he got a booking for it. But he didn't try to hurt the other guy, just tried to play the ball (he did it).

[Aberlour10]

gwnn, on 2014-June-24, 13:33, said:

Aha, saw the Balotelli card now. How can you possibly think that he "did the same"? He jumped for the ball and kicked someone accidentally in the process. It is still a dangerous action so I agree with the yellow. But you are saying he did not get a yellow, which minute was that?

Sorry I was wrong with "no card".

But this action was not less dangerous for me than the one in the red situation

[billw55]

gwnn, on 2014-June-24, 13:30, said:

It's not how high he raises his foot, it's what he's doing with it. It's just a cynical stamp, nothing to do with the ball, and he knows exactly what he is doing.

OK, if this is red by rule, then refs job is to enforce the rule.

Now is there a rule about biting?

[gwnn]

Yes as I pointed out two or three posts above already. The referee punished the infraction he saw and did not punish the one he did not see. What more can he do? Marchisio was a muppet for doing what he did right under the referee's nose. I hope you're wrong about Suarez not being suspended significantly, but I'm not sure. You never know with FIFA.

spelling

[gwnn]

Aberlour, ok, for you touching someone on their back with your feet while you're jumping to head the ball is just as dangerous as stamping under someone's knees (you can very easily break someone's legs with the second one, they can get some mud on the T-shirt from the first one). Good for you. I guess you think Marchisio also tried to play the ball and he was not malicious at all? (sp)

[billw55]

gwnn, on 2014-June-24, 14:00, said:

Yes as I pointed out two or three posts above already. The referee punished the infraction he saw and did not punish the one he did not see. What more can he do? Marchesio was a muppet for doing what he did right under the referee's nose. I hope you're wrong about Suarez not being suspended significantly, but I'm not sure. You never know with FIFA.

Yes, you are right, the ref can only do so much.

The real problem IMO is that there aren't enough refs. I have often found this very strange. This is the World Cup, the premier sporting event in the entire world, and there are just as many on-field officials as at my local youth soccer league. It would make such a huge difference to have a second ref on the field, perhaps specifically to watch play away from the ball. FIFA can certainly afford it for their biggest attraction. It seems to me that FIFA just likes this kind of thing, missed calls and bad calls make for drama and buzz, or whatever. Sort of a no-such-thing-as-bad-publicity position. Maybe my view is just too American, dunno.

[gwnn]

They put some referees behind the goals in UEFA competitions (bringing up the total number to 6: a central ref, two linesmen, two goal-line refs, and the genius who shows extra time and tells the coaches to shut up). It's been a mixed success so far. I remember some games where these goalline referees completely missed obvious penalties or gave penalties for obvious dives. It might be something of a psychological problem, they aren't used to this new rule. The goal-line dude would most likely have seen the bite.

[PhantomSac]

hrothgar, on 2014-June-24, 06:50, said:

I'm very interested in the US - Germany game, not the least because of the relevance to the never-ending debates about sportsmanlike dumping

I was looking into putting a large bet on a tie for this reason (both teams are incentivized heavily to tie), but the market seems to have adjusted a lot for this factor, the odds of a tie are significantly higher than they would have been if this had been game 1.

I don't really know anything about soccer, what are peoples opinions of how much of a factor this will be to the German team?

[Aberlour10]

PhantomSac, on 2014-June-24, 14:16, said:

I was looking into putting a large bet on a tie for this reason (both teams are incentivized heavily to tie), but the market seems to have adjusted a lot for this factor, the odds of a tie are significantly higher than they would have been if this had been game 1.

I don't really know anything about soccer, what are peoples opinions of how much of a factor this will be to the German team?

Knowing J. Löw (german coach) he let them play some kind of safety and controlled football in this situation. Löw thinks 2 moves forward, To save so much physical power as possible for later stages will be most important for him. There are several problems with injured players too. But I still think they will win it (1-0) even if they play in the "power-save-mode"

[cherdano]

PhantomSac, on 2014-June-24, 14:16, said:

I was looking into putting a large bet on a tie for this reason (both teams are incentivized heavily to tie), but the market seems to have adjusted a lot for this factor, the odds of a tie are significantly higher than they would have been if this had been game 1.

I don't really know anything about soccer, what are peoples opinions of how much of a factor this will be to the German team?

See my post above, I don't think the incentives are right for the German team.
If you google.de "Gijon", the second hit is
http://en.wikipedia....%80%930_Austria, aka "Schande von Gijon" ("disgrace of Gijon") - where Germany and Austria colluded to let the game end in a 1-0 victory for Germany, which let both teams advance.. If you google.de "Weltmeisterschaft 1982", on the first page almost half the links focus on this game. And the German team made it to the finals.
If you are a cynic and think football players are motivated by earnings only, they'd have a lot more to lose in endorsements by collusion than to gain by the miniscule improvement of securing a group win over 2nd place. If you think they are motivated by ego - well then they want to win (or at least look good) as soon as they are out on the pitch. Only if you think they are motivated only by their dream of winning a world cup AND cynical enough to use every means necessary to increase the chances of reaching it they'd have an incentive to collude.