[paulg]

glen, on 2014-July-07, 08:57, said:

As you can see from the reply to Scotts email, whatever you do don't describe your bids as "tell me more"

Example:
2♣(Strong)-2♦(Tell me more]-2♥(Kokish)-2♠(Tell me more) = relay system for ACBL
2♣(Strong)-2♦(waiting]-2♥(Kokish)-2♠(waiting) = not a relay system for ACBL

The Tournament Directors are the only people who seem to respond promptly to questions. It is never the committee who are responsible for the poorly written regulations and, presumably, have some idea what they intend them to mean.

[glen]

mycroft, on 2014-July-07, 09:47, said:

... No relay system starts with 2♣. Nor with 1NT ...

I don't understand this reply. I've played Relay Stayman over 1NT, and it seems quite the relay to me.

[blackshoe]

glen, on 2014-July-07, 08:57, said:

As you can see from the reply to Scotts email, whatever you do don't describe your bids as "tell me more"

Example:
2♣(Strong)-2♦(Tell me more]-2♥(Kokish)-2♠(Tell me more) = relay system for ACBL
2♣(Strong)-2♦(waiting]-2♥(Kokish)-2♠(waiting) = not a relay system for ACBL

No. "Relay systems" in the meaning of the charts require an opening bid at the one level. Neither of these sequences is a relay system.

I see Mycroft already responded about this. Hopefully the above will clarify what he said.

[blackshoe]

Flem72, on 2014-July-07, 07:23, said:

If 2D is not descriptive (catchall - no appropriate alternative bid), but inquisitive (i.e. 'tell me more'), then it would be part of a relay system and this part of your convention would not be allowed under GCC.

Interesting. This seems to be predicated on the assumption that 2♣ is a relay. Otherwise there is no evident sequence of relays. As an aside, I had always thought of "sequence of relays" as a sequence of bids by one player, asking his partner for information. It seems I was mistaken.

[glen]

blackshoe, on 2014-July-07, 14:28, said:

No. "Relay systems" in the meaning of the charts require an opening bid at the one level ...

Can you point out where you found this, as the GCC just says "Disallowed ... 5) Relay (tell me more) systems"

edit: question answered below

[Flem72]

Every call in bridge is in some sense "tell me more." Simple "relay" bids don't seem objectionable; it would seem that we usually call them "conventions" (Glen's Kokish example). Surely what distinguishes a "relay system" is that one call triggers another call that demands a response selected from a list of predetermined, artificial meanings, after which another relay demands more of the same. I'm not sure that gwnn's example -- asking bid? -- is a true relay; I'm not sure that Mr. Weber's "inquisitive" 2D necessarily creates a "relay system."

But I'm dang happy that I can print out Weber's response and show it around if anyone challenges whether 2C in this structure may be made on 2 cards or whether this "catchall" 2D is a relay.

[straube]

glen, on 2014-July-07, 15:02, said:

Can you point out where you found this, as the GCC just says "Disallowed ... 5) Relay (tell me more) systems"

It's under "Definitions"

"5. A sequence of relay bids is defined as a system if, after an opening of
one of a suit, it is started prior to opener’s rebid."

[glen]

straube, on 2014-July-07, 16:04, said:

It's under "Definitions"

"5. A sequence of relay bids is defined as a system if, after an opening of
one of a suit, it is started prior to opener’s rebid."

thanks

[straube]

You're welcome. Here's the ACBL definition for "relay bid"

"a bid which does not guarantee any specific suit, partner is requested to make the next-step bid (usually) or make another descriptive bid if appropriate (e.g. a diamond bid which usually shows hearts but may not have hearts in some cases"

I think most folks here understand this, but I haven't seen it in this thread after a brief perusing.

So putting it together, for something to be a relay system it has to start with 1 of a suit bid and then responder has to make a relay bid....(e.g. a diamond bid which usually shows hearts but may not have hearts in some cases)

1M-2C GF relay
.....2D-various
..........2H-tell me more

is legal and the 2D bid is the first relay bid

1M-2C various
.....2D-tell me more

is not legal.

In the first case, the relay bid is 2D and in the second case the relay bid is 2C.

The ACBL prohibition is against a methodology that makes little sense. I suppose it would stop...

1M-2C (weak hand with diamonds or GF hand with clubs or GI hand with long hearts)
.....2D-tell me more
..........P-weak hand with diamonds
..........2H-GI hand with long hearts
..........2S-4S/5C
..........etc-GF clubs

Btw that's just something stupid I put up for illustration.

Edit: the other consideration is that for it to be a relay system it has to have a sequence of relay bids. So more than one. So playing Midchart, you might be able to play 1M-2C as a "multi" bid (because artificial constructive responses are legal) and then have opener ask with 2D and then have responder make natural non-relay bids. Or alternately, playing Midchart, you could play 1M-2C as a "multi" bid and then have opener ask with 2D and then responder's rebid could be another artificial (relay) bid as long as you were in a game force.