[Jinksy]

Still Acol, still matchpoints. As in other threads, P's opening shows 4+, and may be on a balanced (4n)(4n) outside the NT range (though he should be 5-4 or better after his rebid):

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[eagles123]

Ugh really hate to pass here but think I would - chicken!

[nige1]

Jinksy, on 2014-November-29, 11:14, said:

Still Acol, still matchpoints. As in other threads, P's opening shows 4+, and may be on a balanced (4n)(4n) outside the NT range (though he should be 5-4 or better after his rebid):

---

IMO 3♣ = 10, Pass = 9, 2♠ = 6. Close decision. Perhaps 3♣ is an IMPs rather than Pairs bid. Pass could well be best because 2♥ may score more highly than 3♣.

[mikeh]

Pass is clear. 3♣ is weird....why do we want to play 3m on what may well be a 6-1 or worse fit when we can play 2M on at least a 4-3? Yes, they will lead trump and, yes, on some hands 3♣ is better, but partner can play the hands as well as we can (tho few of us like to think that way)

[Fluffy]

The gain for 3♣ comes when we reach game, not when we play it there I think. Sadly 3♣ is a highly missdescriptive call for reaching game as well, partner will pass with a good 5-5-2-1 thinking our club honnors don't fit when it is kinda the opposite.

[Phil]

I would pass and be prepared to apologize if its wrong. With 1-3, sometimes you have to take a (very) false preference to 2♠, but this isn't the hand.

[WesleyC]

Happily pass.

[Cthulhu D]

How strong do you need to be in ACOL to bid 3H? I think 3C only wins when there is a skinny game to be reached (or partner is 5=4=1=3), and I think the window for that is very small, so I went with Pass.

[mcphee]

Pass is clear, I can't see the logic for anything else.

[whereagles]

I'm sick and tired of misguessing positions like this.. lol.

Anyway, 3♣. Even with a singleton across, I can make a few ruffz.

[Fluffy]

Cthulhu D, on 2014-November-29, 23:11, said:

How strong do you need to be in ACOL to bid 3H? I think 3C only wins when there is a skinny game to be reached (or partner is 5=4=1=3), and I think the window for that is very small, so I went with Pass.

I don't know ACOL, but I would be really surprised if there was any system where 3♥ with 3 cards was possible.

[Cthulhu D]

Fluffy, on 2014-November-30, 03:11, said:

I don't know ACOL, but I would be really surprised if there was any system where 3♥ with 3 cards was possible.

I meant how strong would opener have to be for the jump rebid of 3H sorry.

[Jinksy]

Cthulhu D, on 2014-November-29, 23:11, said:

How strong do you need to be in ACOL to bid 3H? I think 3C only wins when there is a skinny game to be reached (or partner is 5=4=1=3), and I think the window for that is very small, so I went with Pass.

I think the principles of bidding in Acol and SAYC are more similar than people here seem to think. A 3♥ bid is a GF in both systems, so while there are minor considerations about what sort of hands P might have responded as he did given that you've shown 5♠ rather than 4, I think they'd very rarely change whether you have a GF opposite his response.

That said, perhaps the main difference on everyday auctions other than what P might raise you on is that Acol players tend to keep their responses stronger. I don't know how much that's conservative English players and how much the fact that 1m openings actually promise the suit, so passing it out is generally less likely to lead to the wrong part score. Probably a little of both. If your P has the agreement that P responds to 1m on almost any strength with a major suit, maybe you want more for a GF, but it doesn't seem like it would apply over P's 1M opening.

[Cthulhu D]

Jinksy, on 2014-November-30, 09:20, said:

I think the principles of bidding in Acol and SAYC are more similar than people here seem to think. A 3♥ bid is a GF in both systems, so while there are minor considerations about what sort of hands P might have responded as he did given that you've shown 5♠ rather than 4, I think they'd very rarely change whether you have a GF opposite his response.

That said, perhaps the main difference on everyday auctions other than what P might raise you on is that Acol players tend to keep their responses stronger. I don't know how much that's conservative English players and how much the fact that 1m openings actually promise the suit, so passing it out is generally less likely to lead to the wrong part score. Probably a little of both. If your P has the agreement that P responds to 1m on almost any strength with a major suit, maybe you want more for a GF, but it doesn't seem like it would apply over P's 1M opening.

Not particularly relevant, but I've never actually played either system. The only things I've ever discussed with a partner more than 15 minutes before a session are Precision (first system I learnt from an ancient C.C. Wei book that recommended all splinters as 4441 exactly!), a more modern precision variant, a 2-way club system (and discussion was 'let's read and play these notes and play that for this 4 weeks team event') and 2/1 GF. I've played 56 boards of standard in my life - including BBO pickup pards lol.

[helene_t]

Jinksy, on 2014-November-30, 09:20, said:

I think the principles of bidding in Acol and SAYC are more similar than people here seem to think. A 3♥ bid is a GF in both systems, so while there are minor considerations about what sort of hands P might have responded as he did given that you've shown 5♠ rather than 4, I think they'd very rarely change whether you have a GF opposite his response.

That said, perhaps the main difference on everyday auctions other than what P might raise you on is that Acol players tend to keep their responses stronger. I don't know how much that's conservative English players and how much the fact that 1m openings actually promise the suit, so passing it out is generally less likely to lead to the wrong part score. Probably a little of both.

Yes. Another minor difference is that our 1NT response in Acol is tightly limited so we can bid 3♥ or 3♣ here without much risk of making p overexcited. Even 2NT might be an option in Acol, which is obviously isn't playing 2/1.

But I would pass regardless.