[barmar]

helene_t, on 2015-March-05, 10:20, said:

As a health concerned canibal I demand GMO labels on human flesh.

When we start allowing genetic engineering of humans, maybe it will be like "Dark Angel" and they'll get a bar-code.

[mike777]

barmar, on 2015-March-06, 14:48, said:

When we start allowing genetic engineering of humans, maybe it will be like "Dark Angel" and they'll get a bar-code.

genetic engineering of humans has been around for years.

Human Genetic Engineering : History
http://humangenetic....eering-history/
The term Human Genetic Engineering made it presence felt in 1970. This is the time when several methods were devised with the help of molecular biologists for identifying or for isolating clone genes. Methods were also devised for manipulating the genes to other species or for mutating them in humans.

[onoway]

http://action.foodde...hubers_warning/

Not to worry, once people have no choice but to eat GMO foods sterility and abortions (to say nothing of cancers) will take care of any population increase. Besides, with robots able to do pretty much anything these days, what really are people needed for anyway?

Though if you are interested, Helene, I know a place which sells seeds of a cousin of tomatoes which supposedly is highly tasty when used with human flesh, or so people in New Guinea used to say.

[onoway]

Oh yes, Bayer, the outfit that is strenuously resisting any controls of neonicotinoids implicated in bee colony collapse, is now getting heavilly involved in the production of bio products which supposedly will restore soil bacteria in which the soil is depleted. A nice gig,one outfit unnecessarilly kills them off and the other gets to try to restore them and both of you make money.

Sort of like seeing someone going around setting fires and following them selling fire extinguishers. But it's good for business.

[mikeh]

onoway, on 2015-March-06, 20:52, said:

http://action.foodde...hubers_warning/

Not to worry, once people have no choice but to eat GMO foods sterility and abortions (to say nothing of cancers) will take care of any population increase. Besides, with robots able to do pretty much anything these days, what really are people needed for anyway?

Though if you are interested, Helene, I know a place which sells seeds of a cousin of tomatoes which supposedly is highly tasty when used with human flesh, or so people in New Guinea used to say.

You really do prefer to live in a tabloid world, don't you?

Do you really think that selling food that kills people, or farm animals, or induces unwanted abortions or renders consumers sterile is likely to be a good business model? LOL.

Those who make and market GMO products do so because the stuff sells.....if GMO cattle feed spontaneously induced abortions, which is one of the claims you make, then it won't end up being very popular with farmers.....

You really need to get some sense of reality, as opposed to reading those who make money from distorting and propagating non-evidence based scary scenarios.

[mike777]

Perhaps some of the confusion regarding GMO is in the discussion of "natural selection" vs "artificial selection"

Hopefully by now we can agree that both are fully part of nature and an act of nature.

For many years natural selection was accepted as the path that is best for survival of the species. This has been proven false. It turns out natural selection works not so much for "the good of the species" but on a much smaller unit the gene.

That means that evolution by natural selection may not be the best path for survival of the species.
"The forces of natural selection have continued to operate on human populations, with evidence that certain regions of the genome display directional selection in the past 15,000 years"
Wade, N (2006-03-07). "Still Evolving, Human Genes Tell New Story". The New York Times

Of course "artificial selection" may indeed lead to evolution of other species that are not homo sapiens

[barmar]

mike777, on 2015-March-06, 16:14, said:

genetic engineering of humans has been around for years.

Human Genetic Engineering : History
http://humangenetic....eering-history/
The term Human Genetic Engineering made it presence felt in 1970. This is the time when several methods were devised with the help of molecular biologists for identifying or for isolating clone genes. Methods were also devised for manipulating the genes to other species or for mutating them in humans.

The methods exist. AFAIK, it's still illegal to actually DO it, so we don't have any genetically-engineered humans. So no need yet for labeling for the benefit of canibals.

Or to borrow an old saying: If human genetic engineering is outlawed, only outlaw canibals will eat GMO humans.

[helene_t]

barmar, on 2015-March-08, 13:52, said:

The methods exist. AFAIK, it's still illegal to actually DO it, so we don't have any genetically-engineered humans. So no need yet for labeling for the benefit of canibals.

Three-parents babies come close, though: http://en.wikipedia...._Alana_Saarinen

The technique is now banned in the US but was recently approved in the UK.

[mikeh]

National Geographic's current issue has an article on how a large number of reasonably educated people in the West are rejecting rational thinking on ideas like global warming, vaccines and GMOs, along with the (largely US) rejection of evolutionary theory. I only glanced at the article while waiting for a prescription to be filled

[ArtK78]

Bill Nye changes his mind about GMOs.

http://www.washingto...ind-about-gmos/

[Winstonm]

ArtK78, on 2015-March-09, 12:01, said:

Bill Nye changes his mind about GMOs.

http://www.washingto...ind-about-gmos/

"When the facts change, I change my mind." - John Maynard Keynes

[barmar]

If this were a TV thriller, The Science Guy would have been injected with something during his visit to Monsanto.

[mike777]

This is a thriller. Basically all of our non GMO food has been exposed to radiation. This radiation contains mutagens.

"In genetics, a mutagen is a physical or chemical agent that changes the genetic material, usually DNA, of an organism and thus increases the frequency of mutations above the natural background level"

I would also add that basically all humans have been exposed to this radiation.

It appears that all this food and humans have been "injected" by this radiation. I do not know if Monsanto is behind it all.

[blackshoe]

Nah. It's aliens. They want the planet, so they're trying to get rid of us. BTW, global warming is part of the plot. The aliens don't like cold.

[barmar]

blackshoe, on 2015-March-11, 11:39, said:

Nah. It's aliens. They want the planet, so they're trying to get rid of us. BTW, global warming is part of the plot. The aliens don't like cold.

But they screwed up, because global warming also seems to cause more extreme winter weather, like the near-record breaking season we've had this year in Boston.

[mike777]

blackshoe, on 2015-March-11, 11:39, said:

Nah. It's aliens. They want the planet, so they're trying to get rid of us. BTW, global warming is part of the plot. The aliens don't like cold.

Well true there are a reported 12=15 million aliens in the USA and many of them do not like the cold. But we can not deport them so lets give them a path to citizenship. Let us add them to that great American melting pot.
btw many of them if not all are also being exposed to this radiation that contains mutagen.

[Zelandakh]

mike777, on 2015-March-11, 15:28, said:

Well true there are a reported 12=15 million aliens in the USA and many of them do not like the cold.

That would explain the reported 77% of Americans that believe there are signs of aliens having visited the Earth.

[mikeh]

Zelandakh, on 2015-March-11, 16:14, said:

That would explain the reported 77% of Americans that believe there are signs of aliens having visited the Earth.

76% of Americans believe that aliens haven't merely visited the Earth....they've moved in and stolen all the jobs that Real Americans don't want. And are planning to bring their cousins in next.

[mikeh]

I just found this reference: http://www.pnas.org/...19/777.full.pdf

The authors estimate that 99.99% by weight of pesticides found in a typical American diet represent pesticides produced by the foodstuffs as part of an evolved defence against pests

Oh well, more science for the gmo-nuts to deny.

[onoway]

mikeh, on 2015-March-17, 14:28, said:

I just found this reference: http://www.pnas.org/...19/777.full.pdf

The authors estimate that 99.99% by weight of pesticides found in a typical American diet represent pesticides produced by the foodstuffs as part of an evolved defence against pests

Oh well, more science for the gmo-nuts to deny.

If the plants have evolved their own defenses then why is it necessary to flood the crops with more? Of course, people thought that the Titanic was unsinkable as well, because they had designed in protection against anything nature could throw at her...

And if gmo agriculture, as it is being done now, is the "answer" why did India, after trying it wholeheartedly, now BAN GMOs in what used to be their most productive and fertile lands before they went to GMOs and almost destroyed their water table resources as a result? Why has Ghana, urgently in need of food self-sufficiency, recently said no to GMOs, and decided that they would be far better off building on their own traditions and food crops?

If these companies have the interests of the poor and the hungry at heart, why did food riots around the world happen a few years ago at the same time as there were huge bumper crops of grain and corn? If you don't know the answer, it's because the companies selling the seed are also buying the crop and selling it for biogas paid better than selling it for food, because people in poor countries couldn't pay as much as if it were sold for biogas. So much for their humanitarian intentions.

It isn't only that the crops are slowly poisoning people they are even more quickly destroying the land. That's what many people suggest explains the disappearance of many civilizations before now, but hey many of us will be gone and not have to deal with it,so why worry?

So what if a new batch of people with inflated egos and unflappable hubris think they can short circuit and force nature to do their will without even knowing anything much about the soil life (assuming, giving them the benefit of the doubt here as the alternative would fit my definition of evil)..just like people beating the earth with sticks every spring used to think. It didn't work out too reliably in the past, but hey, this is now and that was then. The only problem is that people used to do things with limited reach, now we are doing things with almost unlimited capacity to do a great deal of damage for a very very very long time. Sort of like fighting with swords as opposed to nuclear weapons.

And apparently they don't care, if they did, they wouldn't try so energetically to do everything they can to protect what they are doing from being researched by any scientists unfunded or paid for by them.Or hire firms to search out and befuddle conversations with half truths, which can be more confusing than outright lies, although they freely use those too.

In any case, people will decide what they want to do, at least now they have been somewhat exposed to the realities of the situation. Believing in GMO agriculture as it is being promoted and practised by companies like Monsanto is sort of like being in the religion where people think that if they only have enough faith, the live rattlesnake they are handling won't bite them... that doesn't usually end up well either, although some have got away with it for a time.