[Phil]

mikeh, on 2015-July-07, 06:00, said:

hyperbole is a recognized form of writing. I agree that my comment was over the top, but, seriously, can you construct any hand on which partner's optimal call is 6S?

Obviously he has a freak, but so what? It has to be better for him to do something else. 3S can never be wrong, assuming that it is forcing, even if it ostensibly shows a balanced max. He may get a cuebid that helps him or he can keep bidding beyond 4S to clue us in.

Mike, why backpedal?

6♠ is terrible. It doesn't matter what their hand looks like. Calls like this are generally symptomatic of deeper issues in a partnership, and exhibits a complete lack of trust. Perhaps a single hand doesn't break up a partnership, but it would contribute to its quick demise. I can think of at least two single hands that have ended partnerships for me, but they were already on the rocks.

6♠ is the type of call a pro makes with a weak client, and its translation is, "you have no idea WTF you are doing so I'm just going to take my best shot here".

[mikeh]

Phil, on 2015-July-07, 09:29, said:

Mike, why backpedal?

6♠ is terrible. It doesn't matter what their hand looks like. Calls like this are generally symptomatic of deeper issues in a partnership, and exhibits a complete lack of trust. Perhaps a single hand doesn't break up a partnership, but it would contribute to its quick demise. I can think of at least two single hands that have ended partnerships for me, but they were already on the rocks.

6♠ is the type of call a pro makes with a weak client, and its translation is, "you have no idea WTF you are doing so I'm just going to take my best shot here".

when the first upvote was from the hog, that was an indication that I may have been a little rough I truly dislike the 6♠ call, but that doesn't make partner necessarily an idiot or a beginner It may well mean that he doesn't trust either me, or himself, or the partnership to be able to bid the hand intelligently, and (unless he is an idiot or a relative beginner) I disagree...... it is possible that the two hands cannot be bid constructively but we owe it to ourselves to at least try, and 6♠ is a rejection of that notion. I would not ever end a partnership over this sort of hand, tho if partner were to insist that his call was right, even after discussion, then it might well be over, but that would be because of his or her attitude towards the partnership, not the decision made ATT on this one hand.

BTW, having you and andy as the other upvoters did restore my faith in my post to some degree

[aguahombre]

Whatever her motivation, Partner didn't ask me to think. I didn't think before perpetrating that J2N response, so I will stay consistent and Pass now.

[wank]

yes partner should have 2 voids then our hand is a mirage. only the diamond singleton is of value.

[ArtK78]

aguahombre, on 2015-July-07, 10:27, said:

Whatever her motivation, Partner didn't ask me to think. I didn't think before perpetrating that J2N response, so I will stay consistent and Pass now.

What makes you believe that you didn't think before making a J2N response? General dislike of J2N? Or the belief that your hand is not appropriate for a J2N response? Whatever it is, partner has no clue that your hand is a prototypical J2N response or something a little offshape such as your actual hand. That doesn't mean it that your bid was made with a lack of thought.

As for the leap to slam, yes, partner is not asking you to think. That is the problem.

[neilkaz]

SteveMoe, on 2015-July-06, 22:07, said:

6♠ is a transfer to another partner.

Yes, this! Especially if PD then criticizes my action over 6♠. I'd like to raise to 7, but honestly have to pass.

[billw55]

I would never judge partner without at least looking at his hand, and usually asking what he had in mind as well. Maybe it will still seem bad, but I owe him the courtesy.

[rmnka447]

If partner hasn't taken a complete flight of fancy, then 7 ♠ may be a lay down. The problem is that the precipitous jump to 6 ♠ prevents you from knowing exactly on what has made the bid.

I can imagine partner making the bid on something like ♠ AKxxxxxxx ♥ - ♦ AKJxx ♣ - or possibly ♠ AKxxxxxx ♥ - ♦ KQJ10x ♣ -. 7 ♠ is cold on the former, but can't make on the latter.

As much as I'd like to bid 7 ♠, I can't know that 7 is a make so I'll pass.

If partner even starts to tell me I should bid 7 ♠, then we'll have a long discussion about the jump to 6 ♠ and how it prevents me from ascertaining if it's right to bid 7. That will be a far better conversation than bidding 7 ♠ and then trying to explain why I bid it when partner holds a hand where 7 ♠ doesn't make but 6 ♠ does.

[gszes]

I made a crummy 2n call (vs 2h) and now we are in the soup. While it is highly improbable p has the right hand for 6s, I am willing to bid 7 and have a look see before doing anything further. If the partnership is not well oiled enough to handle radical hands maybe 6s is a rational bid.
My fertile imagination figures about 80% of "rational" 6s bids will make 7s so I go with that at IMPS. This hand is just plain too darn good to go quietly into the night.

At MP converting to 6n should at least pick up some MP while doing that at IMPS makes no sense.

[ggwhiz]

manudude03, on 2015-July-06, 18:00, said:

---

MPs scoring, weak field.

I reject the notion that the leap to slam is so bad under these conditions. State of the match, 8-0-3-2 shape with appropriate controls is a surely a gamble but so is marking the opening lead, especially at mp's. I'll go for partners throat as fast as the next guy if our game was going well and/or there was no reason for the leap but not until I find out what they were up to and may suggest that exclusion on their losers (clubs or diamonds) would be an improvement.

[aguahombre]

ArtK78, on 2015-July-07, 10:58, said:

What makes you believe that you didn't think before making a J2N response? General dislike of J2N? Or the belief that your hand is not appropriate for a J2N response?

J2N is a tool designed to pretty much take over and elicit information. This responding hand should be describing its side source of tricks, its strength, and perhaps later its complete shape in a probe for slam --- regardless of whether Opener is limited by no forcing club or wider ranging. In the process, depending on the continuations, the partnership can count tricks for slam, game, strain.

J2N is not used by big clubbers with balanced mere game values, because they don't need to provide the leakage to the opponents. But there are some Responding hands where j2N could be a useful tool -- big clubbers or not.

No, I don't have a general dislike of J2N. I have a general dislike for the willy-nilly use of it.

[Antrax]

So what was the hand that prompted the leap to 6♠?

[gnasher]

aguahombre, on 2015-July-07, 21:24, said:

J2N is a tool designed to pretty much take over and elicit information.

That might be the way that many people use it, but it doesn't have to be like that. Used sensibly, J2N is just the same as any other constructive bid - it's a way of telling partner something useful about your hand and allowing him a chance to do the same.

[lamford]

gnasher, on 2015-July-19, 00:30, said:

That might be the way that many people use it, but it doesn't have to be like that. Used sensibly, J2N is just the same as any other constructive bid - it's a way of telling partner something useful about your hand and allowing him a chance to do the same.

And partner did. 6S in modern methods shows a 7-0-6-0 hand something like AKTxxxx none KQxxxx none. 6C shows the same hand with the minors transposed, 6D asks for good trumps (with the other suit solid) with the reply 6H being medium trumps, and 6H shows the same hand with the red suits transposed. None of the hands can use Exclusion Blackwood because of the double void.

Boy, everyone is stupid except me. - Homer Simpson

[manudude03]

Partner's hand was Axxxx x AKQJxx x. He said that he just hadn't considered RKC and didn't know what to do with 2 singletons. King of spades was offside.

[billw55]

manudude03, on 2015-July-20, 05:22, said:

Partner's hand was Axxxx x AKQJxx x. He said that he just hadn't considered RKC and didn't know what to do with 2 singletons. King of spades was offside.

So, partner held a hand he didn't understand how to deal with, and made the best practical bid he could think of. It sounds like the post mortem told him what he needed to know (use keycard), settling the matter with minimal fuss.

Definitely not cause to insult or dismiss a partner. Not at my level, anyway.

[mikeh]

billw55, on 2015-July-20, 09:03, said:

So, partner held a hand he didn't understand how to deal with, and made the best practical bid he could think of. It sounds like the post mortem told him what he needed to know (use keycard), settling the matter with minimal fuss.

Definitely not cause to insult or dismiss a partner. Not at my level, anyway.

I empathize with your post, and it may be unfair of me to suggest that had partner's hand been posted as a 'what to bid' over the 2N response, even in the Novice/Beginner forum, few people would have seen it as an interesting question. Of course, at the table hands that seem, when considered later, as routine, can be difficult, and it is unfair to expect players not to have blind spots on occasion.

[dboxley]

I get another partner, there is no such bid.

[PhilKing]

8NT

[WellSpyder]

PhilKing, on 2015-August-09, 17:36, said:

8NT

Why do you need to know how many jacks partner holds?