[rmnka447]

Winstonm, on 2017-February-03, 23:48, said:

https://theintercept...aid-protesters/

That refutation was from April 2016.

My comment was based on the videos Project Veritas released about Democrat paid agitators and how they fomented violence at Trump rallies. Those came out in October and have admitted Democratic operatives talking about how they paid and trained operatives on how to force violence against themselves. Oh, and remember that 69 YO lady on Oxygen who got popped at a Trump rally. Wasn't that despicable? Yeah, she was a paid agitator and trained for 2 weeks on how to get herself roughed up.

And your rebuttal is?

[Winstonm]

rmnka447, on 2017-February-06, 21:40, said:

That refutation was from April 2016.

My comment was based on the videos Project Veritas released about Democrat paid agitators and how they fomented violence at Trump rallies. Those came out in October and have admitted Democratic operatives talking about how they paid and trained operatives on how to force violence against themselves. Oh, and remember that 69 YO lady on Oxygen who got popped at a Trump rally. Wasn't that despicable? Yeah, she was a paid agitator and trained for 2 weeks on how to get herself roughed up.

And your rebuttal is?

First: https://www.washingt...m=.610c610d373a
Second: But then, the source of the entire scam is really all one needs to know to discount the story:

Quote

Project Veritas Action, founded by James O’Keefe, has been criticized for selectively editing videos from its undercover operations aimed at liberal or Democratic allied organizations. O’Keefe is known for his highly controversial tactics and selective edits that create untrue storylines, notably in videos about Planned Parenthood and ACORN, a national community organization.

There is difference between goombahs editing to create purposefully misleading tapes and genuine differences of opinion with persons wtih integrity - if this story had come from William F. Buckley, for example, it would have been serious.

That it came from Project Veritas and James O'Keefe makes it worthless to start - and that is not my fault for not believing him but his fault for all his previous "chicken little" attempts to promote untruths.

Third: it is not illegal to show up at a Trump rally wearing an anti-Trump t-shirt or wearing a Planned Parenthood shirt - that all it takes is a t-shirt to incite violence from the Trump supporters is a condemnation of them, not the ones there to protest him.

[Zelandakh]

mike777, on 2017-February-05, 22:50, said:

zel you may be correct, very correct but it would help if you define terms,,,for example I have seen many talk about right wing when in fact it is left wing very confusing
standard of measurement

Try the political compass as a reasonable starting point. For example, here is their representative graph for the 2016 US presidential election. YOu can read the FAQs to understand why most governments (#23), and even Liberals (#21), are to the right of centre. This is a good site and shows viewpoints fairly close to their traditional positions in the political research and literature.

[helene_t]

So during the primary, Clinton was more rightwinged than Trump but during the GE, Clinton moved leftwards while Trump moved rightwards?

Maybe it is just measurement noise. Or maybe Trump became influenced by GOP policies after GOP started endorsing him?

I am not sure if I can make up a rational reason for Clinton to move to the left during the GE.

Trump became even more authoritarian and Clinton less so.

Normally you would expect candidates to become more moderate during the GE in an attempt to appeal to those on the fence.

[jogs]

Winstonm, on 2017-February-05, 13:46, said:

We have to keep in mind that Trump lost the popular vote by 2.8 million. Still, that means that way too many people were fearful enough or hated the Clintons enough to give the reigns of power to a consummate con man.

Trump won the electoral college. Clinton won California by 3.4 million. Over 3 million illegals have driver's license. No proof of citizenship is needed to register to vote in California. Every four years between 5 to 10% of the voters move or pass away. Are the rolls current in any of the states? How many dead people voted? How people voted multiple times? How many illegals voted? Trump wasn't winning those votes.
Doubt if any of this would have changed the electoral college totals.

[jogs]

Zelandakh, on 2017-February-05, 22:35, said:

I am British. On that side of The Pond the more common criticism is that the right-wing media slants the news on its coverage. By the standards of the rest of the world, there is not really a left-wing media in the USA at all, only a centre-right media and a far-right media.

Aside from Fox News all TV and print media is left-wing in America. Europe is much further left than America. I'm thinking left/right as it was in 1960 America.
The press and most of the posters on this forum represent the views of the elite progressive left. Brexit shows that the countryside in England doesn't agree with those views. Rural America doesn't agree with those views. Trump won nearly 80% of the counties in the USA. These people have been left behind in the last 30 years. Even the republicans didn't protect them.

[barmar]

Any thoughts on Trump's recent comment about Putin? Bill O'Reilly asked him why he supported Putin, even though he's a killer. Trump's response: "There are a lot of killers. You think our country's so innocent?"

I'm sure if he'd asked about almost any other authoritarian leader, the response would have been completely different. Is this part of "America First" -- since Russia is not attacking us, it's OK? Trump apparently likes Russia more than Australia, because Russia isn't trying to send us any of their Syrian refugees.

[Winstonm]

jogs, on 2017-February-07, 10:58, said:

Trump won the electoral college. Clinton won California by 3.4 million. Over 3 million illegals have driver's license. No proof of citizenship is needed to register to vote in California. Every four years between 5 to 10% of the voters move or pass away. Are the rolls current in any of the states? How many dead people voted? How people voted multiple times? How many illegals voted? Trump wasn't winning those votes.
Doubt if any of this would have changed the electoral college totals.

It might be helpful to find out for yourself how California protects itself from illegal voters rather than simply accept what someone else claims. That is part of critical thinking - determining facts. Here is an answer I found without much trouble.

Quote

A quick visit to the DMV’s website reveals that besides passing written and road tests, recipients of new legal-resident drivers licenses must show a Social Security card and prove their “legal presence” in California and the nation.

That proof can be a birth certificate, passport, immigration green card or even Border Patrol crossing cards and Mexican consular IDs. Only those whose identification proves they are eligible to vote will automatically be registered.

Here is the DMV site.

[Vampyr]

jogs, on 2017-February-07, 11:11, said:

Aside from Fox News all TV and print media is left-wing in America. Europe is much further left than America. I'm thinking left/right as it was in 1960 America.

It's not 1960, and if this is an ideal for you then you must be a straight white man (congratulations) because everyone else had limited rights.

[Vampyr]

jogs, on 2017-February-07, 10:58, said:

Trump won the electoral college. Clinton won California by 3.4 million. Over 3 million illegals have driver's license. No proof of citizenship is needed to register to vote in California. Every four years between 5 to 10% of the voters move or pass away. Are the rolls current in any of the states? How many dead people voted? How people voted multiple times? How many illegals voted? Trump wasn't winning those votes.
Doubt if any of this would have changed the electoral college totals.

Where is your evidence of voter fraud? The only cases I have heard of were two women who tried to vote twice for Trump.

[cherdano]

helene_t, on 2017-February-07, 05:09, said:

...during the GE, Clinton moved leftwards while Trump moved rightwards?

Maybe it is just measurement noise. Or maybe Trump became influenced by GOP policies after GOP started endorsing him?

I am not sure if I can make up a rational reason for Clinton to move to the left during the GE.

That's the least discussed novel feature of the 2016 elections in my view.

In Trump's case, he won by running against the party elites, but also against orthodox Republican positions. Then he moved to the riht in order to hold the party together.
In Clinton's case, I think it was more of a turnout strategy. Clinton was not a candidate that got the Democratic base excited. So her campaign hoped that here policy positions would do that, instead.

[olegru]

barmar, on 2017-February-07, 12:09, said:

Any thoughts on Trump's recent comment about Putin? Bill O'Reilly asked him why he supported Putin, even though he's a killer. Trump's response: "There are a lot of killers. You think our country's so innocent?"

I'm sure if he'd asked about almost any other authoritarian leader, the response would have been completely different. Is this part of "America First" -- since Russia is not attacking us, it's OK? Trump apparently likes Russia more than Australia, because Russia isn't trying to send us any of their Syrian refugees.

From Russian media point of view, Trump wants to accept whatever Putin is doing in exchange of using Russian army in land operation against ISIS. These two businessmen found each other.
As for people, some of them may die, but it's a sacrifice they both are willing to make.

[Winstonm]

olegru, on 2017-February-07, 15:42, said:

From Russian media point of view, Trump wants to accept whatever Putin is doing in exchange of using Russian army in land operation against ISIS. These two businessmen found each other.
As for people, some of them may die, but it's a sacrifice they both are willing to make.

Disturbing stretch of a word's meaning to say "businessman" about a career KGB officer and now autocrat. Better to say an autocrat found a willing con-man he could manipulate and many innocents will most likely die.

[PassedOut]

Winstonm, on 2017-February-07, 16:20, said:

Disturbing stretch of a word's meaning to say "businessman" about a career KGB officer and now autocrat. Better to say an autocrat found a willing con-man he could manipulate and many innocents will most likely die.

It almost seems as though Putin holds something over Trump to keep him in line. Something is going on there.

[jogs]

Vampyr, on 2017-February-07, 12:34, said:

It's not 1960, and if this is an ideal for you then you must be a straight white man (congratulations) because everyone else had limited rights.

Wrong, I'm an atheist Asian. Live in San Francisco. In 1950 San Francisco Chinese were not to live outside of Chinatown. I prefer to live under the Judeo-Christian ideals rather than Islamic ideals. By 2050 the world will have more Muslims then Christians. You wont like living under Sharia Law.

[jogs]

Quote

A quick visit to the DMV’s website reveals that besides passing written and road tests, recipients of new legal-resident drivers licenses must show a Social Security card and prove their “legal presence” in California and the nation.

Illegal immigrants do have 'valid' social security cards.

[Winstonm]

jogs, on 2017-February-07, 18:10, said:

Illegal immigrants do have 'valid' social security cards.

That still isn't enough to get them registered to vote - keep reading.

[Al_U_Card]

PassedOut, on 2017-February-07, 17:55, said:

It almost seems as though Putin holds something over Trump to keep him in line. Something is going on there.

It's called China and Trump will need Putin as a friend when he takes on the Chinese.

[Al_U_Card]

Dbl

[Al_U_Card]

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