[johnu]

Drudge Report Dragged For Promoting Hit Piece On The Wrong ‘Christine Ford’

The Alt-right is going all out to attack Kavanaugh's accuser. Facts be damned.

Quote

Drudge Report later deleted the tweet linking to Grabien’s botched reporting, though the site neither informed its more than 1.4 million followers about the retraction nor apologized for the error.

[Chas_P]

cherdano, on 2018-September-17, 06:52, said:

Let me try this less provocatively.

1. Do you think it is more likely than not that Bill Clinton raped Juanita Broaddrick?

2. Do you think that at the time these allegations became public, Clinton defenders could have produced a letter signed by 65 women vouching for Bill Clinton's character, who knew him during the time this rape allegedly took place?

3. If you answered yes on 2., does it at all influence your thoughts about 1.?

(In case you are wondering, my personal answers are Yes, Yes, No.)

Edit: Here is a genuine good-faith attempt by a conservative writer to judge the likelihood Ford is telling the truth: https://www.national...-but-not-solid/
He thinks it possible Kavanaugh is guilty, but he deems it more likely than not that he is innocent. Fine, I disagreee, but I can see where he is coming from. And you know how many times he mentions the letter signed by 65 women? Zero.

That's the worst about of this thread - that we usually get the shittiest versions of pro-Trump arguments, even when it is possible to make a reasonable case for the Trump/conservative viewpoint.

I respect your opinion. I also respect Dr. Blasey's right to tell her story....whatever that story may be. I read the article to which you linked....probably before you did....and I have many of the same questions the author had. Time will tell.

[jjbrr]

Quote

President Trump on Monday ordered the Justice Department to declassify significant materials from the investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 election, including portions of a secret court order to surveil one of his former campaign advisers and the text messages of several former high-level FBI officials, including former FBI director James B. Comey and deputy director Andrew McCabe.

The White House said in a statement the move came at the request of “a number of committees of Congress, and for reasons of transparency.” Conservative lawmakers critical of the Russia probe had been agitating for the materials to be made public.

Let's be very clear, Trump is going to fire Sessions.

- Trump cannot order the FBI to "publicly" release anything. He can order the AG to release information, but he cannot do it himself.
- If Trump advises Sessions to release information, Sessions has discretion about whether or not to comply. Sessions would be strongly, again, STRONGLY, advised not to comply.
- Sessions will refer to his recusal. Mueller will file a complaint (this is obstruction, obviously), Trump will double down, blah blah blah "democrats" "transparency" "witch hunt"
- Sessions, you're fired. (Probably) Mueller, you're fired. Rosenstein, you're fired.

Saturday Night Massacre under the cover of complete transparency. We'll hear about winning and draining the swamp or some other bullshit.

[PassedOut]

Chas_P, on 2018-September-16, 18:32, said:

More than five dozen women came forward Friday to defend Supreme Court nominee Judge Brett Kavanaugh against an alleged high school incident, calling President Trump’s pick for the high court “a good person.”

As conservatives attack, hundreds sign letters supporting Kavanaugh accuser Christine Blasey Ford

Quote

Trump administration operatives have gone into overdrive questioning Ford’s reliability and motives, while a chorus of Kavanaugh supporters has extolled the nominee’s sterling character.

On Monday night, Ford’s own supporters, from her past and present, rallied to her side.

Hundreds of friends and acquaintances from Ford’s professional and personal orbits added their names to a pair of letters of support for the 51-year-old. One of the letters came from some of Ford’s schoolmates from the 1984 class at Holton-Arms School, the private high school in Bethesda, Md., she attended at the time of the alleged assault. The second was written by “colleagues, current and former students, and mentors” from Ford’s work as a clinical psychologist.

“More than 200 of her colleagues, students and mentors signed this letter in less six hours,” Sarah Adler and Debra Safer, organizers behind the second letter, told The Washington Post in an email early Tuesday morning. “To us, this speaks for itself. They rallied around Christine because she is a highly respected, moral, and well-loved part of our community.”

Seventeen former students from Holton-Arms attached their names to a letter (full text below) addressed to Congress and dated Sept. 17.

It takes courage to stand up to the far-right hate machine in the US, and there's no reason for her to lie about what happened and take on that hate machine except for her concern for the welfare of the US.

On the other hand, she's contradicted by a man who stands to gain a great deal by lying about what happened--if what she says is true--and a man who has already shown a willingness to deceive congress to advance his ambitions. As things stand now, I feel that his nomination is doomed.

[y66]

It's heartening to read the letters of support by Christine Blasey Ford's schoolmates and colleagues in the WaPo story passedout linked.

And also to see WaPo firing on all cylinders again.

[johnu]

Going back to the 65 women who signed a letter in support of Kavanaugh

Brett Kavanaugh’s Supporters Now Far More Reluctant To Speak Up Publicly

The timing of the letter made it appear that the women didn't believe the allegations against Kavanaugh.

Quote

Another former Harvard Law student, Renee Gerber Burbank ’09, didn’t respond to HuffPost but did tweet that she was appalled by the allegations. She also criticized Republicans for using these letters as weapons against Ford.

[rmnka447]

jjbrr, on 2018-September-18, 06:52, said:

Let's be very clear, Trump is going to fire Sessions.

- Trump cannot order the FBI to "publicly" release anything. He can order the AG to release information, but he cannot do it himself.
- If Trump advises Sessions to release information, Sessions has discretion about whether or not to comply. Sessions would be strongly, again, STRONGLY, advised not to comply.
- Sessions will refer to his recusal. Mueller will file a complaint (this is obstruction, obviously), Trump will double down, blah blah blah "democrats" "transparency" "witch hunt"
- Sessions, you're fired. (Probably) Mueller, you're fired. Rosenstein, you're fired.

Saturday Night Massacre under the cover of complete transparency. We'll hear about winning and draining the swamp or some other bullshit.

The President doesn't have the right to order the DOJ to turn over documents, but he does have the right to declassify anything he wants to. Once that material is declassified, the government has no right to refuse to allow the public to see it. If the DOJ tries to withhold them, then they can be sued in Federal court and ordered to turn them over.

There's been enough come out so far to indicate that there may have been abuse of power by the DOJ and FBI. So let's get everything out in the open and let the public discern what the truth is. If the DOJ and FBI have acted properly, they should have nothing to fear from this information becoming public. If the Dems think the information being provided is incomplete or slanted toward Trump then they ought to request the President also declassify those items that might correct the public record.

Democracy flourishes best when things are out in the open in the light of day.

BTW, the "Saturday Night Massacre" was about trying to keep information from coming out, not for refusing to let information come out.

[kenberg]

I apologize in advance for what I suppose is at least a diversion if not a hijack but I am having a problem here.

As I get it, this girl was 15 when she was at this party. Alcohol was being served. Whether it was Kavanaugh or not, some boy got seriously aggressive, seriously enough that it appears to be an attempted rape. A 17 year old boy does not belong at such a party, but a 15 year old girl? What the hell? Surely the parents who own the house are legally liable for the underage drinking, and I would think they would have some legal liability for a rape that occurred. And that's just speaking of the legality. I am far more concerned with the overall judgment.

It is often said that kids grow up faster these days. Do they? Drunken sex is not my idea of growing up faster.

Ms. Ford went to Holton Arms. That's about 2 miles from Whitman High, where my grandkids went (the youngest is now in college, so this was a bit back). Whitman had sent something to the parents expressing concern over what seemed to be becoming a widespread practice and urging parents to put a stop to this (this =drinking parties). My daughter and her husband did not need this warning but apparently many did, and some ignored it. I don't get it.

Some posters have said they had gone to such parties when in high school. How does this work? Does the kid say "Hey Dad, I want to throw this really great party for the kids so please buy me some gin, some bourbon and some good scotch and then get lost for a few hours Saturday night." ? Or are the parents just clueless?

We can get back to Trump. I promise, but if someone could just help me understand this I would appreciate it.

[ggwhiz]

rmnka447, on 2018-September-18, 13:16, said:

The President doesn't have the right to order the DOJ to turn over documents, but he does have the right to declassify anything he wants to.

There is a long history of reviewing such matters with an eye to protecting sources and methods.

It would be no surprise if to the benefit of Trump U.S. intelligence activities INSIDE Russia could be compromised and that evaluation is in the hands of career professionals as it should be.

[Chas_P]

kenberg, on 2018-September-18, 14:42, said:

I apologize in advance for what I suppose is at least a diversion if not a hijack but I am having a problem here.

As I get it, this girl was 15 when she was at this party. Alcohol was being served. Whether it was Kavanaugh or not, some boy got seriously aggressive, seriously enough that it appears to be an attempted rape. A 17 year old boy does not belong at such a party, but a 15 year old girl? What the hell? Surely the parents who own the house are legally liable for the underage drinking, and I would think they would have some legal liability for a rape that occurred. And that's just speaking of the legality. I am far more concerned with the overall judgment.

It is often said that kids grow up faster these days. Do they? Drunken sex is not my idea of growing up faster.

Ms. Ford went to Holton Arms. That's about 2 miles from Whitman High, where my grandkids went (the youngest is now in college, so this was a bit back). Whitman had sent something to the parents expressing concern over what seemed to be becoming a widespread practice and urging parents to put a stop to this (this =drinking parties). My daughter and her husband did not need this warning but apparently many did, and some ignored it. I don't get it.

Some posters have said they had gone to such parties when in high school. How does this work? Does the kid say "Hey Dad, I want to throw this really great party for the kids so please buy me some gin, some bourbon and some good scotch and then get lost for a few hours Saturday night." ? Or are the parents just clueless?

We can get back to Trump. I promise, but if someone could just help me understand this I would appreciate it.

Ken, I would never attempt to help you understand anything; you're much smarter than I am. But I will offer my opinion. I think it all goes back to the mid-60's and Timothy Leary with https://en.wikipedia...ne_in,_drop_out and https://en.wikipedia...tion_authority. A lot of young people bought into that philosophy with the "love-ins" in San Francisco and the "if it feels good, do it" mentality. So my question is the same as yours. "Where were the adults at this house party? Where were Blasey's and Kavanaugh's parents?" Perhaps they were turned on, tuned in, and at a party of their on at the country club. You and I are of a different generation. I would not even dream of letting my 15 year-old daughter (if I had one) attend a house party that I knew would be unchaperoned with alcohol flowing; same goes for my 17 year-old son (and I had two of those). I'm sure you feel the same.

Perhaps Judge Kavanaugh was falling-down drunk and trying to get Dr. Blasey's clothes off; he unequivocally denies it. Perhaps Dr. Blasey was falling down drunk too; she stands by her story, yet she says she doesn't remember exactly where the party was, how she got there, or how she got home. And so far she has ignored the committee's invitation to appear next Monday to tell her story which she initially released anonymously. So we really don't know who, if either, is telling lies.

[ggwhiz]

kenberg, on 2018-September-18, 14:42, said:

I apologize in advance for what I suppose is at least a diversion if not a hijack but I am having a problem here.

As I get it, this girl was 15 when she was at this party. Alcohol was being served.
We can get back to Trump. I promise, but if someone could just help me understand this I would appreciate it.

When I was that age we had a record snowfall in Ottawa. We dug down in a guys front yard, dug out 3 large caverns, carved snow benches, outfitted them with Coleman lamps and had the wildest party with more than just alcohol. The parents and all the neighbours were home at the time.

Kids were inventive to the point of never being denied and despite the new phenom of helicopter parents I bet you they still are.

[johnu]

rmnka447, on 2018-September-18, 13:16, said:

There's been enough come out so far to indicate that there may have been abuse of power by the DOJ and FBI.

Poor Dennison. He's just the lowly President of the United States, he appointed the Attorney General of the United States who is in charge of the DOJ and FBI. The AG can be fired at any time. Every member of his cabinet has publicly licked his boots and virtually every Republican in Congress is terrified to criticize any of his crazy words and actions. Poor Dennison getting picked on by the US government

[kenberg]

ggwhiz, on 2018-September-18, 21:25, said:

When I was that age we had a record snowfall in Ottawa. We dug down in a guys front yard, dug out 3 large caverns, carved snow benches, outfitted them with Coleman lamps and had the wildest party with more than just alcohol. The parents and all the neighbours were home at the time.

Kids were inventive to the point of never being denied and despite the new phenom of helicopter parents I bet you they still are.

It's different.I strongly believe that it's very difficult to stop a 17 year old from screwing up his life if he is determined to do so. Allowing an unsupervised party (and if a potential rape happened I think unsupervised is an understatement) with alcohol and 15 year old girls is an entirely different matter. Making the best of a record snowfall sounds great, I can imagine getting in on that. I suppose the "more than" includes drugs. Not my thing.

But I am more thinking of what I gather is a routine practice of turning over the house and the booze to a munch of high schoolers. This sounds brain dead stupid to me.

Full disclosure: I was divorced twice, nobody has nominated me for family man of the year. But some things just seem dumb to me. My kids survived my failures, and we are close. So perfection? No. But with the boozy parties I just don't get it.

[kenberg]

Chas_P, on 2018-September-18, 19:27, said:

Ken, I would never attempt to help you understand anything; you're much smarter than I am. But I will offer my opinion. I think it all goes back to the mid-60's and Timothy Leary with https://en.wikipedia...ne_in,_drop_out and https://en.wikipedia...tion_authority. A lot of young people bought into that philosophy with the "love-ins" in San Francisco and the "if it feels good, do it" mentality. So my question is the same as yours. "Where were the adults at this house party? Where were Blasey's and Kavanaugh's parents?" Perhaps they were turned on, tuned in, and at a party of their on at the country club. You and I are of a different generation. I would not even dream of letting my 15 year-old daughter (if I had one) attend a house party that I knew would be unchaperoned with alcohol flowing; same goes for my 17 year-old son (and I had two of those). I'm sure you feel the same.

Perhaps Judge Kavanaugh was falling-down drunk and trying to get Dr. Blasey's clothes off; he unequivocally denies it. Perhaps Dr. Blasey was falling down drunk too; she stands by her story, yet she says she doesn't remember exactly where the party was, how she got there, or how she got home. And so far she has ignored the committee's invitation to appear next Monday to tell her story which she initially released anonymously. So we really don't know who, if either, is telling lies.

I have been thinking about the "who to believe" question. My immediate response was intuitive, it sounded like the truth to me, amnd I have not changed my mind. But of course the world does not run on Ken's intuition.

I invite you to consider: There is this guy Judge (I think I have the name right). He and Kavanaugh were friends, pretty close as I understand it. Now if a close friend was having his career and his life sabotaged by some irresponsible accusation that included me as a witness, I would be on the first jet out to Congress demanding to be heard. That does not appear to be happening. Ok, I am a Metro ride away from Congress, but you get the idea.

It is being siad that there is no collaboration. Well, there is Judge. If he is broke I think someone could be found to pay his airfare. Hell, I might.

[hrothgar]

When I was growing up

1. The drinking age was officially 18 and unofficially much lower than that.
2. Parents would often leave home for the weekend or even longer and place their kids in charge

Doesn't anyone remember movies like Risky Business?

(With this said and done, when I wanted to get wrecked, I'd just wander over to Vassar which had any number of options for parties)

[hrothgar]

Must say, I find Christine Blasey Ford's insistence that the FBI needs to investigate the alleged sexual assault before she testifies to be confusing.

I don't mean to discount her allegations which I find highly credible, but, its unclear what an FBI investigation of this specific incident would turn up.

[cherdano]

hrothgar, on 2018-September-19, 06:28, said:

Must say, I find Christine Blasey Ford's insistence that the FBI needs to investigate the alleged sexual assault before she testifies to be confusing.

I don't mean to discount her allegations which I find highly credible, but, its unclear what an FBI investigation of this specific incident would turn up.

She did name (to the Washington Post) two others who attended that party. It's not as if there is nothing the FBI could do.

(Of course, these witnesses, as well as Judge, could also be subpoenaed and be interrogated by the club of octanegarians Judiciary Committee, but as they've made clear they don't want to know more than they have to know...)

Still, I am wondering about the quality of advice she is getting. Her lawyer did suggest to her to take a polygraph after all.

[awm]

hrothgar, on 2018-September-19, 06:28, said:

Must say, I find Christine Blasey Ford's insistence that the FBI needs to investigate the alleged sexual assault before she testifies to be confusing.

I don't mean to discount her allegations which I find highly credible, but, its unclear what an FBI investigation of this specific incident would turn up.

The Republicans basically want to call her in front of the committee so they can try to destroy her credibility. The reality is that she doesn't remember every detail of this incident (no big surprise since it was over 30 years ago) but they will try to make it look like this means she was lying. And they'll probably do what's often done to victims and try to make it look like she was "asking for it" by being at the party or whatever.

Why should she want to subject herself to this destruction of her own reputation, without guarantees that there's going to be some kind of serious investigation?

[barmar]

kenberg, on 2018-September-18, 14:42, said:

I apologize in advance for what I suppose is at least a diversion if not a hijack but I am having a problem here.

As I get it, this girl was 15 when she was at this party. Alcohol was being served. Whether it was Kavanaugh or not, some boy got seriously aggressive, seriously enough that it appears to be an attempted rape. A 17 year old boy does not belong at such a party, but a 15 year old girl? What the hell? Surely the parents who own the house are legally liable for the underage drinking, and I would think they would have some legal liability for a rape that occurred. And that's just speaking of the legality. I am far more concerned with the overall judgment.

It is often said that kids grow up faster these days. Do they? Drunken sex is not my idea of growing up faster.

Ms. Ford went to Holton Arms. That's about 2 miles from Whitman High, where my grandkids went (the youngest is now in college, so this was a bit back). Whitman had sent something to the parents expressing concern over what seemed to be becoming a widespread practice and urging parents to put a stop to this (this =drinking parties). My daughter and her husband did not need this warning but apparently many did, and some ignored it. I don't get it.

Some posters have said they had gone to such parties when in high school. How does this work? Does the kid say "Hey Dad, I want to throw this really great party for the kids so please buy me some gin, some bourbon and some good scotch and then get lost for a few hours Saturday night." ? Or are the parents just clueless?

We can get back to Trump. I promise, but if someone could just help me understand this I would appreciate it.

The crowd I ran with in high school were all good kids. We were nerds and science geeks, and all graduated near the top of our class (I had a 95th percentile GPA, and most of my friends were even higher). So our parents generally trusted us to behave responsibly, and we never gave them cause not to.

But we weren't perfect. We had fake IDs and went to bars even though we were below drinking age (it was still 18 at the time). Someone always managed to get beer and rum to bring to our parties. Since I never developed a taste for liquor, I was generally the designated driver. I can't recall any time one of my friends drove while drunk, although I couldn't swear it didn't happen. I remember once or twice we even went to a strip club (but it might have been later, maybe when I was home for the summer after my freshman year of college, or the stag party before one of them got married). I can tell you one thing: stuff like that is pretty boring when you're sober.

We probably had parties every month or two, at different friends' houses. This was an upper middle-class town, we all had large houses with finished basements, and that's where we usually had our parties. The parents might be upstairs in the family room or their bedroom, they weren't lording over us.

These weren't wild toga parties like in "Animal House", it was about a dozen regular friends hanging out, playing music, some getting a little drunk or high, couples making out. It was just one of the things teenage kids did -- sometimes we would go out to a movie or the amusement park, other times we would have a party.

[kenberg]

hrothgar, on 2018-September-19, 06:28, said:

Must say, I find Christine Blasey Ford's insistence that the FBI needs to investigate the alleged sexual assault before she testifies to be confusing.

I don't mean to discount her allegations which I find highly credible, but, its unclear what an FBI investigation of this specific incident would turn up.

The R's, last I heard, were insisting that there will be only two witnesses. If the FBI decides to look at this as part of a background check, no doubt they will have a word with Judge. Judge may not be the smartest cookie on the block but he probably realizes lying to the FBI is a bad move. I can see why someone, her lawyer, a friend, or me if she reads the BBO-WC, , might advise her to push for the FBI to take a look.