[Trinidad]

mycroft, on 2017-January-06, 16:37, said:

(given that I think that only Ethanoic Acid can influence that call, I'm on board with that)

Perhaps you should refresh your chemistry.

Very few people enjoy consuming large amounts of Ethanoic Acid. This is, next to DHMO, Dihydrogen Monoxide (also known as water), the main ingredient of vinegar. I assume you meant ethanol, which is the characteristic ingredient of many "fun enhancing" beverages that some people enjoy consuming in either moderate, large or enormous quantities, with - as a consequence - moderate, large or enormous effects on their behavior and their judgement.

Rik

[Cyberyeti]

Trinidad, on 2017-January-07, 02:17, said:

Perhaps you should refresh your chemistry.

Very few people enjoy consuming large amounts of Ethanoic Acid. This is, next to DHMO, Dihydrogen Monoxide (also known as water), the main ingredient of vinegar. I assume you meant ethanol, which is the characteristic ingredient of many "fun enhancing" beverages that some people enjoy consuming in either moderate, large or enormous quantities, with - as a consequence - moderate, large or enormous effects on their behavior and their judgement.

Rik

I actually think he meant lysergic acid or a derivative thereof, ethanol isn't enough for that bid.

[Trinidad]

Cyberyeti, on 2017-January-07, 05:13, said:

I actually think he meant lysergic acid or a derivative thereof, ethanol isn't enough for that bid.

That could do it. After all, with a high dose of ethanol, you wouldn't be able to get the card out of the bidding box. (Which one of the two?)



Rik

[barmar]

mycroft, on 2017-January-06, 16:37, said:

If the TD decided to rule that the misinformation did not influence the 3♥ call (given that I think that only Ethanoic Acid can influence that call, I'm on board with that) then I could certainly see that it *did* influence the misplay, and award some percentage of 500 and some of 200 instead of sticks and wheels.

But he would never have been in the position to make the misplay if he hadn't made the crazy bid in the first place. I think this is the kind of thing the lawmakers intended when they said you lose some of your right to rectification if you take a SEWoG action.

Quote

I, personally, happen to dislike A+/A- when a result has been obtained, because of my reading of the Law and the training I have received. There are cases where it is legal, and I am not going to second-guess that this is one of them (I'm a director. I'm not *your* director. I wasn't there, I only know one side of the story, I'm biased, you're biased, yadda yadda).

A+/A- is the ruling of lazy directors, who don't want to try to figure out the likely result absent the infraction, as required by the laws. Our club used to have a director like that, and I frequently had to educate him that it's not legal.

[mycroft]

re OP:
Well, given that you were East, we have the complete story *from your side*, and you are biased by definition. Whether or not you think you are looking at it "without bias", if you actually are, you'll be the first bridge player I've met who can (this includes me).

re barmar:
SEWoG says: "[the NOS] does not receive relief in the adjustment for such part of the damage as is self-inflicted." L12C1b. 3♥x is clearly self-inflicted. However, the misplay is (potentially) a result of having the wrong information about the hand shapes, and that is wholly (assuming a ruling of MI, not misbid) the fault of the OS. If we decide to so rule, then neither side should get 1100. Whether the OS should get the result in 3♣ (or 4♣) rather than the result defending 3♥x is another question.

re blackshoe:
Well, the laws say it's legal (Law 12C1d), so it has to be possible. Having said that, I've never given one in 17 years of (very part time) directing...

[blackshoe]

mycroft, on 2017-January-09, 11:29, said:

Well, the laws say it's legal (Law 12C1d), so it has to be possible. Having said that, I've never given one in 17 years of (very part time) directing...

Yes, that's what I meant. I've never given one either.

[barmar]

blackshoe, on 2017-January-09, 19:33, said:

Yes, that's what I meant. I've never given one either.

I suppose to poor directors, the possibilities are all "not obvious", so in effect that's their justification.

[mycroft]

I can see situations where it would apply (basically the EBU ones) - if you open 2♠ "bad preempt in a minor" in a GCC event, or 1♦ Precision on a bad 9 count, the auctions "given a legal auction" could be "not obvious". I'd certainly investigate to ensure that A- wasn't materially better than a justifiable auction before I did so, however.

[helene_t]

I would give NS some weighted average of -200, -500, -800 and -1100. North's 3♥ is a SEWoG but he might have been only one down without being confused by the misexplanation.

EW gets some weighted average of -50, -100, -300 and -500. North might not have been tempted to enter the auction if he were told that his small doubleton is not opps' suit, so E gets to accepts the transfer. W must raise the 3♣ bid to at least 4♣ given that he has UI which makes a raise less attractive, so EW will get to 4♣ or 5♣, possible doubled, making 8 or 9 tricks.

[mycroft]

Trinidad, on 2017-January-07, 02:17, said:

Perhaps you should refresh your chemistry.

You are exactly right I should. Look stuff up before posting, mycroft.

I did in fact mean to refer to the most common regulated drug in 90% of the world (let us not dwell on the - thankfully rejected - request for mycroft to spend August. In Riyadh. During Ramadan.) For generic punters, I will in future reference Ethyl Hydrate; for those known to have active chemical knowledge, OSHA has provided me a more obscure one: Methyl Carbinol. Added benefit of the dreaded "methyl" moniker (methyl mercury, magic methyl, methyl alcohol...)

Having said that, liberal application of Ethanoic Acid, diluted as Trinidad suggests above, to chopped, fried and salted root vegetables is a necessary part of modern life (and stops at 49 North Latitude for some reason. Seriously, Americans, that sludge you call ketchup? Please give me your floor cleaner (and yes, seriously, someone finally figured out that I was looking for the stuff they cleaned the floors with. Philistines.))

[weejonnie]

Trinidad, on 2017-January-07, 02:17, said:

Perhaps you should refresh your chemistry.

Very few people enjoy consuming large amounts of Ethanoic Acid. This is, next to DHMO, Dihydrogen Monoxide (also known as water), the main ingredient of vinegar. I assume you meant ethanol, which is the characteristic ingredient of many "fun enhancing" beverages that some people enjoy consuming in either moderate, large or enormous quantities, with - as a consequence - moderate, large or enormous effects on their behavior and their judgement.

Rik

In the past it was more popular.

The Holy Sponge is one of the Instruments of the Passion of Jesus Christ. It was dipped in vinegar (or in some translations sour wine), most likely posca, a favorite beverage of Roman soldiers, and offered to Christ to drink during the Crucifixion, according to Matthew 27:48; Mark 15:36; and John 19:29. (Wikipedia)

Posca: Posca was a popular drink in ancient Rome and Greece, made by mixing sour wine or vinegar with water and flavouring herbs. (Wikipedia).

[hrothgar]

The 3♥ bid is so egregious as to break any link between the mistaken alert and the result.