[pescetom]

I'm more reluctant than many to upgrade NT openings, but I did prefer to open this 19 HCP as 2NT.
Pickup partner transferred to spades and bid game

---

How would you have opened and how would bidding proceed with your usual partner?
MP.

[Cyberyeti]

2N (good 19-21) - 3♥
4♦ (at least HHxxx♦Hxx♠) now S is REALLY interested (we use 3N/4♠ for 4 card support breaks)

[The_Badger]

2NT ok. 4♠ lazy bid. 4♦ if not recognised as an advanced cue bid (by agreement) should show a second suit ♦s and at least 6♠s as willing to play opposite a doubleton.

[heart76]

2nt - 3♥
3♠ - 4♣ cue, which actually promises only 5 ♠
4♦ confirming 3+ ♠ - 4♥ with the aim to cue and not use RKCB.
That's why I like much better Cyberyeti's 4♦ from opener.

[Tramticket]

Our one-level openings include 20 HCP hands and our 2NT rebid is forcing to game.

Our auction would start:
1♦, 1♠; 2NT, 3♦; 3♠ ...

Having identified the double fit, at the three-level, in a game forcing auction, we would exchange cue bids and hopefully reach the small slam.

[gszes]

personal favorite 2n 3h 3s 4h (splinter using 2n 4c to show both majors in conjunction with texas) and partnership should have little trouble arriving at small slam and room to safely investigate grand.

[Cyberyeti]

Interesting to calculate the chances in 7♦, which I think improve against the "always lead a trump against a grand" brigade rather than making you ruff a heart.

[ggwhiz]

Cyberyeti, on 2019-January-07, 16:32, said:

2N (good 19-21) - 3♥
4♦ (at least HHxxx♦Hxx♠) now S is REALLY interested (we use 3N/4♠ for 4 card support breaks)

Basically the same but we use 3nt to show a good hand for spades but flattish and 4♦ to show 3 spades and a quality 5-card suit.

[pescetom]

Thanks for the interesting replies so far, some food for thought.

Tramticket, on 2019-January-08, 02:21, said:

Our one-level openings include 20 HCP hands and our 2NT rebid is forcing to game.

Our auction would start:
1♦, 1♠; 2NT, 3♦; 3♠ ...

Having identified the double fit, at the three-level, in a game forcing auction, we would exchange cue bids and hopefully reach the small slam.

Much the same here. With regular partner I would probably have chosen to open 1♦ and although our 2NT rebid is non forcing I would use it anyway (he knows it promises 18 hcp) - so our auction would start the same way and probably proceed:
3♠, 4♣; 4♦, 4♥; 4NT, 5♥; 5NT, 6♦; 6♠, P

The_Badger, on 2019-January-07, 16:33, said:

4♠ lazy bid.

Happy to let you say it Although to be fair the bid does imply mild slam interest, as we agreed to play 4-level "Texas" transfers too.

The_Badger, on 2019-January-07, 16:33, said:

4♦ if not recognised as an advanced cue bid (by agreement) should show a second suit ♦s and at least 6♠s as willing to play opposite a doubleton.

Showing a good second suit and implictly some slam interest is how 4♦ is usually understood around here, too. It's logical and is coherent with what happens over 1NT, but tricky because you need some agreement about what each 5-level bid by opener would now mean and which if either of responders' suits is treated as trumps.

heart76, on 2019-January-08, 01:07, said:

2nt - 3♥
3♠ - 4♣ cue, which actually promises only 5 ♠
4♦ confirming 3+ ♠ - 4♥ with the aim to cue and not use RKCB.
That's why I like much better Cyberyeti's 4♦ from opener.

So if I understand correctly, you play that new suit by responder after a transfer is a control-bid fixing trumps in the transfer suit and showing slam interest, rather than showing a second suit or a shortage.
I think that would make a lot of sense over 2NT, where otherwise the control-bids start too high to cut much ground. Although good luck convincing my partner to give up showing a natural second suit.

Cyberyeti, on 2019-January-07, 16:32, said:

2N (good 19-21) - 3♥
4♦ (at least HHxxx♦Hxx♠) now S is REALLY interested (we use 3N/4♠ for 4 card support breaks)

Opener using the other suits to show a good 5-card suit is intriguing, and I guess is going to find some 5-3 second-suit fits that responder showing his 4-card second-suit will not detect. On the downside, it's not great to have the strong opener rather than the responder describing his hand, particularly when the responder might not be interested.
Do you play this over 1NT too? At first sight I would be worried to play this over our 15-17, forcing to 3-level when we might have 5-3 fit and half the points.

[Cyberyeti]

pescetom, on 2019-January-08, 09:13, said:

Opener using the other suits to show a good 5-card suit is intriguing, and I guess is going to find some 5-3 second-suit fits that responder showing his 4-card second-suit will not detect. On the downside, it's not great to have the strong opener rather than the responder describing his hand, particularly when the responder might not be interested.
Do you play this over 1NT too? At first sight I would be worried to play this over our 15-17, forcing to 3-level when we might have 5-3 fit and half the points.

We don't theoretically play this over 1N, although I do occasionally do it if I feel the knowledge that partner had 5 in his suit takes my hand above the range for my NT, for example I have Qxx in partner's suit and max points for my 1N, so now with the 5 card suit I'm pretty heavy.

We've found some really good slams where the transfer bidder now realises his honour originally of dubious value is in fact gold dust.

[pescetom]

Cyberyeti, on 2019-January-08, 09:47, said:

We don't theoretically play this over 1N, although I do occasionally do it if I feel the knowledge that partner had 5 in his suit takes my hand above the range for my NT, for example I have Qxx in partner's suit and max points for my 1N, so now with the 5 card suit I'm pretty heavy.

We've found some really good slams where the transfer bidder now realises his honour originally of dubious value is in fact gold dust.

Fair enough.
So alongside this you superaccept with NT as 4-card fit max and a jump in target suit as 4-card fit sub-max, correct?
We currently also have bids for 3-card fit max and for 5-card fit, but the former is little use over 2NT and the latter never happens, so it would be a fairly painless change.

[Cyberyeti]

pescetom, on 2019-January-08, 11:42, said:

Fair enough.
So alongside this you superaccept with NT as 4-card fit max and a jump in target suit as 4-card fit sub-max, correct?
We currently also have bids for 3-card fit max and for 5-card fit, but the former is little use over 2NT and the latter never happens, so it would be a fairly painless change.

for 2N:

New suit = Hxx in partner's suit, HHxxx in the suit bid H=AKQ
3N = max, 4 card support
4(partner's M) = min, 4 card support

we just split our 2N range down the middle for min/max

for 1N we break to length/feature with max and 4 card support, 2N = 4333 with 4 card support, 3(partner's M) = min non 4333 with 4 card support

[pescetom]

Cyberyeti, on 2019-January-08, 12:54, said:

for 2N:

New suit = Hxx in partner's suit, HHxxx in the suit bid H=AKQ
3N = max, 4 card support
4(partner's M) = min, 4 card support

we just split our 2N range down the middle for min/max

for 1N we break to length/feature with max and 4 card support, 2N = 4333 with 4 card support, 3(partner's M) = min non 4333 with 4 card support

Thanks.
For the record, our current agreements are:
NT = max, 3-card support
♣ = max, 4-card support
♦ = 5-card support
Jump in partner's M = min, 4-card support
all identical over both 1NT and 2NT.
So quite easy to adapt.

[J_LMP]

I am not sure what benefit it has for this Forum, but with my usual partner I play a 2/1 type system I developed called ORGANISM. The system is compliant with the ACBL's Green Convention Chart (formerly General Convention Chart) and it has been battle tested in regional and national events over the past 2.5 years. Here is our annotated auction:


1Da - 1Sb
2Cc - 2Dd
2He - 2Sf
2Ng - 4Ch
4Di - 4Sj
4Nk - 5Cl
5Hm - 5Sn
6So - P

a = standard opening values typically featuring 5+ diamonds, but may be exactly 4 diamonds when non-balanced with a few specifically defined distributions
b = 4+ spades, forcing
c = forcing and artificial waiting bid
d = relay, asking clarification - if long spades, at least constructive values
e = 3 card spade support, either 18 to 19 HCP and balanced or unbalanced with spade shortness, length in both minors, and 15 to 17 HCP
f = relay, asking clarification
g = 18 to 19 HCP and balanced with 3 spades and 5 diamonds, game forcing
h = void in hearts (with long spades)
i = slam interest and waiting
j = only constructive values
k = waiting
l = Ace or King of clubs
m = trump ask
n = poor spades
o = to play

[miamijd]

Transferring to 3S and then raising to 4S should be a mild slam invite (with no slam intentions, you use Texas). I think you might want to consider accepting, even with your 19 count. I mean you have 4 key cards, first round control of three suits, and a great source of tricks in diamonds. That's worth a lot more than a lot of 21 point hands. I think I would at least bid 5C to see if I can get a heart control out of partner.

With no Aces and such weakish trump, I think I agree with your partner's bidding. Not sure I would have done anything more.

Also not sure I love opening 2NT here. I try to avoid that opening whenever possible. I think 1D followed by a fake 2H reverse over 1S positions you well to get to 6S.

Cheers,
Mike

[pescetom]

miamijd, on 2019-January-08, 14:00, said:

Transferring to 3S and then raising to 4S should be a mild slam invite (with no slam intentions, you use Texas). I think you might want to consider accepting, even with your 19 count. I mean you have 4 key cards, first round control of three suits, and a great source of tricks in diamonds. That's worth a lot more than a lot of 21 point hands. I think I would at least bid 5C to see if I can get a heart control out of partner.

With no Aces and such weakish trump, I think I agree with your partner's bidding. Not sure I would have done anything more.

Also not sure I love opening 2NT here. I try to avoid that opening whenever possible.

I actually agree with most of that. I chose the 2NT opening mainly to make things clear to irregular partner and keep the bidding simple. And yes, if he chose not to use Texas with reason then he must have at least mild slam interest. After the same bidding sequence but by normal partner I would probably superaccept 3NT to show maximum and 3-card support, certainly do something. But without firm agreements it is much harder to commit to risks, for both players of course.

[mr1303_2]

The problem is the slam is only a bad miss because of the lack of wastage in hearts. And unless South finds a way of showing the heart void, which is near impossible after 2NT, anything is guess work.

Having said that, if transfer then 4S is a mild slam invite, then North is worth at least a sniff after 4S with all the controls.