[phoenixmj]

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We came across this hand in a team game. I was west and opened 4 clubs. Our partnership agreement implies that to open 4 clubs - we likely have a losing trick count of 5-6, along with a good 8 card suit and a weak hand - preemptive. This hand met all of those requirements.

Partner looks at his hand and senses slam. Bid is 4 NT. I answer 5H (2 with no queen).

Partner bids 6 NT - which we make 7 because there is not a heart lead.

Suppose my hand had been as follows.

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Suddenly we have a problem - especially with a heart lead. A heart lead wipes the entry to the board at trick one. The clubs no longer run because we are missing the king. If the diamonds split 4/2 - we are likely in trouble. My question is whether we should be bidding 6 clubs - especially in a team game.

Curious as to what you would bid on this hand in both a team game and a matchpoint game. Should I have opened 4 clubs? It takes up so much room that we seem to not fit in a cue bid or two.

Any help is appreciated.

[The_Badger]

Hand 2 I wouldn't open 4♣ as there are two aces in the hand. Too much for a pre-empt in my opinion.

[Cyberyeti]

 phoenixmj, on 2019-January-14, 16:54, said:

Suppose my hand had been as follows.

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Suddenly we have a problem - especially with a heart lead. A heart lead wipes the entry to the board at trick one. The clubs no longer run because we are missing the king. If the diamonds split 4/2 - we are likely in trouble. My question is whether we should be bidding 6 clubs - especially in a team game.

Curious as to what you would bid on this hand in both a team game and a matchpoint game. Should I have opened 4 clubs? It takes up so much room that we seem to not fit in a cue bid or two.

Any help is appreciated.

You mean 4-1 not 4-2, you have a 6-2 fit and 7♦ is very decent.

We would start with 1♣, this does not look like a 4♣ opener.

On the first hand, I would play 6♣, could be embarrassing if partner has AK109xxxx and 0-1 diamonds and the suits split reasonably but not nicely.

[phoenixmj]

True enough . Hand 2 woluod be a one club open. So i guess partner can figure out i have ak clubs.

How about hand 1? Open 4 clubs??

[Cyberyeti]

 phoenixmj, on 2019-January-14, 17:27, said:

True enough . Hand 2 woluod be a one club open. So i guess partner can figure out i have ak clubs.

How about hand 1? Open 4 clubs??

I would, 4♣-4♦(kickback)-4N(2 without)-6♣ probably.

But you can't necessarily infer AK, what would you open with xx, A, xx, KJ109xxxx

[neilkaz]

To me, Hand 1 is a perfect 4♣ opener per your methods.

[DozyDom]

I would be perturbed at best if diamonds split 4-2. You have 8 of them between you, after all.

[rmnka447]

Hand 1 per your agreements is a 4 ♣ opener, so bid it that way.

I agree with others that Hand 2 is a 1 ♣ opener. Just keep bidding ♣ and partner will get the idea.

[dokoko]

6NT is a very good contract even opposite hand #2. If opps lead a heart, you win unless South has all the diamonds (run ♦9 at trick 2 - duck if North covers).

[phoenixmj]

 DozyDom, on 2019-January-14, 20:46, said:

I would be perturbed at best if diamonds split 4-2. You have 8 of them between you, after all.

LOL - yep - wish this was the first mistake I ever made at counting. Obviously - it was the 4 part I was worried about:)

This was a team game - and our counterparts on the other team had a miscommunication and wound up playing 4 NT - making 7 - ouch!!!!

I guess my thinking is that 6C is the right contract at IMPs - the premium for NT is just not worth the risk. In a MP game - 6C could be a very bad board unless 6NT does not make.

We only recently adopted the LTC qualifications when opening 3 or 4 - and I think it is very helpful with letting partner know whether they should continue bidding if they have a fit. We also incorporate the rule of 2-3-4 and that is also helpful with whether to open the bidding with the preempt.

The LTC qualification seems valuable especially at the 4 level when you essentially have a fit since you have 8 in your hand. Curious to get thoughts on this as well. The only place I have seen this "qualification" was just in what your partner should guess your LTC to be when you preempt.

I will tell you that - having no outside entry and missing the queen - I was briefly tempted to correct to 7 clubs - which does not make because it is likely that the ace of hearts will get led by north. I fortunately decided to pass the 6NT bid. I was, of course thrilled, when partner led the queen of clubs over to the board.

[Cyberyeti]

Not applicable on this hand, but does anybody else have any bit of system over 4m for "I have the nuts outside but no support, is your suit playable in a slam opposite a small singleton or void ?" it allows partner to distinguish between KQ 8th and KQJ 8th for example. For us stiff Q is the break point which is considered support, but maybe it should be stiff J.

We use 4♣-4N and 4♦-5♣ for this (4♦ and 4N ask aces).

[pescetom]

 Cyberyeti, on 2019-January-15, 10:32, said:

Not applicable on this hand, but does anybody else have any bit of system over 4m for "I have the nuts outside but no support, is your suit playable in a slam opposite a small singleton or void ?" it allows partner to distinguish between KQ 8th and KQJ 8th for example. For us stiff Q is the break point which is considered support, but maybe it should be stiff J.

Interesting, but could you spell it out more please? Partner opens 4m and you make the magic bid, then what are his possible replies and what does he assume to make them?

[Cyberyeti]

 pescetom, on 2019-January-15, 14:31, said:

Interesting, but could you spell it out more please? Partner opens 4m and you make the magic bid, then what are his possible replies and what does he assume to make them?

He rebids 5 of his suit or 6 of his suit, or possibly shows something else (most prob a void) if he has AKQ 8th or AK 9th. We haven't precisely codified it, it almost never comes up, will almost always be 5 or 6 of his suit, but possibly 5N should be a holding which is suitable for a grand opposite a singleton but not a void like AK 9th.

[dsLawsd]

I agree with /badger and stop at 6♣on hand 2.