[audaz]

Undoes frequently give unauthorized info to partner. This happens whether or not players subsequently reject them.
They also prompt people to think they have the right to change their minds.Bid and then change it and bid again.

I realize they are an attempt to deal with the mechanical error issue. However, people can learn to be more careful about their bids and plays if they must.

The harm undoes do is far greater than the benefit. They should be eliminated.

[pescetom]

audaz, on 2019-May-07, 11:46, said:

Undoes frequently give unauthorized info to partner. This happens whether or not players subsequently reject them.
They also prompt people to think they have the right to change their minds.Bid and then change it and bid again.

I realize they are an attempt to deal with the mechanical error issue. However, people can learn to be more careful about their bids and plays if they must.

The harm undoes do is far greater than the benefit. They should be eliminated.

This goes hand in hand with the way bids are chosen and confirmed (with or without touchscreen).
The current mechanism of choosing first the level and then the strain is both inelegant (compared to a "bidding box" display where one chooses both together) and error prone (when on a small touchscreen or under pressure in an automated tournament).

My suggestion would be to eliminate Undo and move to a "bidding box" choice for bids and to an optional confirm mechanism that is not itself error prone (such as a touch in the table).

[johnu]

Honest, ethical people won't intentionally do something that requires an undo. Crooks and thieves might abuse the undo feature, but honestly, they are probably doing other things that would make the undo request small potatoes.

If there is no director, not having an undo can result in a ridiculous result. If you play against people who abuse the undo requests, put them on your enemies list and don't play with them again.

My suggestion is that bids and card plays be executed by dragging and dropping and then release the bid/card over a clearly designated hotspot .

[rr9000]

audaz, on 2019-May-07, 11:46, said:

Undoes frequently give unauthorized info to partner. This happens whether or not players subsequently reject them.
They also prompt people to think they have the right to change their minds.Bid and then change it and bid again.

I realize they are an attempt to deal with the mechanical error issue. However, people can learn to be more careful about their bids and plays if they must.

The harm undoes do is far greater than the benefit. They should be eliminated.

I'd be disappointed if undos were removed. Anyone who doesn't want to allow undos doesn't have to, but I basically always grant them. In casual play, I don't want to waste time either with distorted auctions as people try to make up for a mis-bid or with playing silly contracts.

I'm happy to give people the right to refuse them, but I'd like to keep the right to accept them.

You make a good point that there's potentially UI even when the request is rejected. It wouldn't be my highest priority, but maybe the software could be coded so that the partner of the person requesting an undo wouldn't see that there's a request unless it's accepted, or so that a person could elect a blanket undo rejection that would block requests at their table preemptively.

RR9000

[HardVector]

Every world class and expert player I've played with and against has understood the problems of misclicking and have had no problem with undos. The only people I've seen abuse it (one person so far), was a self-proclaimed intermediate player. You need to embrace the environment you are playing in. On the internet, inadvertent mistake are much easier than in real life.

[barmar]

Most tournaments don't allow undoes. In team games and MBC, the table host decides whether to allow them. I think the general feeling is that they're OK in friendly, casual games.

[nige1]

rr9000, on 2019-May-07, 15:00, said:

... You make a good point that there's potentially UI even when the request is rejected. It wouldn't be my highest priority, but maybe the software could be coded so that

• the partner of the person requesting an undo wouldn't see that there's a request unless it's accepted...
• a person could elect a blanket undo rejection that would block requests at their table preemptively.

Both suggestions would be an improvement

[Imaboa]

I am learning the new software and have been trying to find the undo button but cannot; was it eliminated in the new version?

[barmar]

Imaboa, on 2019-May-12, 17:32, said:

I am learning the new software and have been trying to find the undo button but cannot; was it eliminated in the new version?

It's not a button, it's in the blue table menu in the corner of the table.

[woodi]

barmar, on 2019-May-13, 08:27, said:

It's not a button, it's in the blue table menu in the corner of the table.

I and several other players have noticed a problem in that it is not clear how to accept undo requests. If you click on accept nothing happens. I'd be very grateful for an answer?

[barmar]

I answered the question about accepting undoes in your other thread.