[sfi]

Partner and I had an interesting situation come up last week. We had differing views and, after having discussed it with a few people, there does not appear to be a consensus about standard treatments.

The auction:

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2S is game forcing, which is about as far as we had discussed.

Say you have a normal takeout double - 1444 shape with 13 points - nothing special. What is your default action with this sort of a hand? What do other bids mean and what inferences can doubler's partner take from these actions?

[helene_t]

3c.

[HardVector]

I'd start bidding 4 card suits up the line. See what partner is up to.

[FelicityR]

This is an interesting post as it's got me thinking. I would agree with the previous commentators that bidding the suits up the line seems a good starting point without specific agreements, however all the other bids that do not involve one of your suits such as 2NT, 3♠, 3NT could have specific meanings, perhaps even conventional in context, showing specific shapes, point counts, etc. (Though I'm sure we've all had the partners with 12-14 HCPs, and a 4333 shape, and a stop (or perhaps not) in the opponents' suit who have made a takeout double over an opponents' opening bid.)

.

[pescetom]

Bid my 4 card minor if any (I already showed hearts).

[Cyberyeti]

I think there's a case for 3♠ to be "no significant extras, no 5 card suit, no stop", but not without agreement. You could also use 2N (bidding 3N with a weak no trump with a stop).

Without that agreement I'd bid 3♣.

[Tramticket]

 sfi, on 2019-August-22, 17:01, said:

2S is game forcing, which is about as far as we had discussed.

We would include a weaker hand with both minors in the cue-bid. My initial response with a minimum take-out double would be my better minor.

[steve2005]

 pescetom, on 2019-August-23, 01:44, said:

Bid my 4 card minor if any (I already showed hearts).

No you haven't shown ♥.
A takeout double only promises 3♥ and even then could have less ♥ with a big hand.
I like showing 4♥ here if you have them, as a priority.

[nige1]

sfi 'Partner and I had an interesting situation come up last week. We had differing views and, after having discussed it with a few people, there does not appear to be a consensus about standard treatments. 2S is game forcing, which is about as far as we had discussed. Say you have a normal takeout double - 1444 shape with 13 points - nothing special. What is your default action with this sort of a hand? What do other bids mean and what inferences can doubler's partner take from these actions?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Good question. My partnerships don't have a proper agreement, here.
If your agreement is that 2♠ is GF, perhaps:
-- 2N = NAT. Strong hand. System on.
-- 3m = NAT. Often 5 cards.
-- 3♥ = NAT. 4+ cards, (A priority as Steve2005 suggests).
-- 3♠ = CUE. Stop-ask, in the 1st instance. (but I like CyberYeti's idea).

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[pescetom]

 steve2005, on 2019-August-23, 09:03, said:

No you haven't shown ♥.
A takeout double only promises 3♥ and even then could have less ♥ with a big hand.
I like showing 4♥ here if you have them, as a priority.

My agreement with real world partners is (as I said) that a takeout double of a major promises 4-card in the other major, unless I have a strong hand. So I have shown 4-card ♥ here, giving partner a clear possibility to "raise" and putting the bad guy on lead. The disadvantage of course is that I can rarely takeout without 4-card in the other major, which is a very heavy price I agree.

[steve2005]

 pescetom, on 2019-August-23, 09:50, said:

My agreement with real world partners is (as I said) that a takeout double of a major promises 4-card in the other major, unless I have a strong hand.

So what do you do (in the real world) with 13-14 hcp and a perfect takeout double except you have 3♥? 2-3-4-4 for example.
Pass?

[Cyberyeti]

 nige1, on 2019-August-23, 09:29, said:

sfi 'Partner and I had an interesting situation come up last week. We had differing views and, after having discussed it with a few people, there does not appear to be a consensus about standard treatments. 2S is game forcing, which is about as far as we had discussed. Say you have a normal takeout double - 1444 shape with 13 points - nothing special. What is your default action with this sort of a hand? What do other bids mean and what inferences can doubler's partner take from these actions?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Good question. My partnerships don't have a proper agreement, here.
If your agreement is that 2♠ is GF, perhaps:
-- 2N = NAT. Strong hand. System on.
-- 3m = NAT. Often 5 cards.
-- 3♥ = NAT. 4+ cards, (A priority as Steve2005 suggests).
-- 3♠ = CUE. Stop-ask, in the 1st instance. (but I like CyberYeti's idea).

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How often are you actually going to have a strong hand here ? 12 for the opener, 13 for the GF maybe, so 15 if the 4th hand has nothing

[pescetom]

 steve2005, on 2019-August-23, 15:20, said:

So what do you do (in the real world) with 13-14 hcp and a perfect takeout double except you have 3♥? 2-3-4-4 for example.
Pass?

I thought I made that very clear.

[sfi]

Thanks for the insight. It does seem like there's not one normal way to play things, although the most common approach appears to be to start bidding four-card suits up the line. There are also mentions for 2NT, 3H and 3S being default options, so lots to ponder.

For what it's worth, we regularly double 1S without four hearts and that's not going to change, so we need to cater for that. It will all feed into our discussion.