[phoenixmj]

---

2c is either 22+ hcp or 8.5 tricks
2h is a positive response showing 8+ points and 2 of top 3 or 3 of top 5 hearts - guarantees 5 hearts
2s is natural
3c is partner showing second suit as clubs, so likely 5 hearts and 4 clubs
3s is showing spades as a strong suit at least 6

How does the bidding continue from here?

[Cyberyeti]

If partner's spades were solid, presumably he could have bid 3♠ rather than 2. I bid 4♣ showing at least 5-5.

[phoenixmj]

 Cyberyeti, on 2019-December-27, 15:54, said:

If partner's spades were solid, presumably he could have bid 3♠ rather than 2. I bid 4♣ showing at least 5-5.

I had not considered jumping in spades after a 2 club open. We are basically in a game force tryng to find the right place and level, and I thought we were supposed to go slowly to exchange as much info as possible. This is interesting.

[neilkaz]

Now I'll bid 4♥ which should show a really long suit. I don't mind the 4♣ Approach but we do have 2 more ♥ than ♣.

[hrothgar]

4♣ is the practical bid, because partner can't pass it and this gives us the best chance to figure out strain.

However, I am sorely tempted to just bid 7NT and save my energy for figuring out how to make it...

[akwoo]

I want to be in grand if partner has something like

♠AKQxxxx ♥Qx ♦AKxx ♣-

I want to be in 6♠, not 6♥, opposite

♠KQJTxxx ♥x ♦AKQJ ♣x

But I want to be in 6♥ opposite

♠KQJxxx ♥Qx ♦AKQJ ♣x

Exclusion right now would be for spades, not hearts, so that can't give me the information I need.

I don't see how bidding 4♣ right now could give me the information I need.

4♥ will be passed on many hands that make slam. I think even 5♥ will be passed on many hands that make slam.

So I think the practical bid is 6♥. Partner might find the correction to 6♠ with the right hand, and could find 7♥ with the right hand.

[phoenixmj]

---

OK - here is the other side of the story.

South has passed when the bid came to me. I opened 2C.

My partner bid 2H - so I know him to have 5 hearts and a good suit (2 of top 3 or 3 of top 5), and a minimum of 8 points.

I now mention my spades at the two level. I know someone mentioned bidding them at the 3 level, but I know I get to bid again so I bid them at the 2 level. Curious to know if that is an underbid?

Next, partner says 3 clubs - so I figure he is two suited - but they are my singletons. I really want to know if he has kings and aces in those suits so I can sluff my 2 losing diamonds. A void in diamonds is only useful if he has spades.
I next bid 3 spades.

My partner then made a bid that I think is an underbid - and he said 4 spades. By this point, I feel we should be in slam and I bid 4NT. He responded 5H and I bid 6 spades. I should have bid 5 NT to ask for kings - but instead I chickened out and bid 6 spades. WE made 7 and about 1/2 the field wound up in 7.

Now - if I ask for kings, he would tell me he had the king of clubs. I still don't know about the kind of hearts or if he has a queen in clubs. I know I will have transportation problems in all likelihood. Frankly - we are intermediate players rather than advanced - and we do tend to back away from 7 bids.

I would appreciate any advice as to how this auction should have gone now that you have both sides of the story. Should I open 1 spade instead of 2c? Should I jump in spades?

Thanks in advance?

[FelicityR]

 Cyberyeti, on 2019-December-27, 15:54, said:

If partner's spades were solid, presumably he could have bid 3♠ rather than 2. I bid 4♣ showing at least 5-5.

Given the West hand, and the positive response of 2♥, just bidding 2♠ is a lacklustre effort and, as Cyberyeti rightly says (rather clairvoyant-ly given the actual hand), you need to tell your partner immediately that your ♠s are solid from the top by bidding 3♠ immediately instead of 2♠. (The 3♠ bid usually sets the trump suit, too)

At that juncture, East knows immediately that either 7♠ or 7NT is the desired contract.

[ahydra]

Indeed, if the bidding starts 2C-2H; 3S showing a solid suit, I bid 7S as East (or go via 5D exclusion if the "solid" might mean KQJT9xx(x)). We have 4 tops + controls everywhere + source of tricks in hearts just in case partner somehow can't produce 9 tops.

ahydra

[Tramticket]

 Cyberyeti, on 2019-December-27, 15:54, said:

If partner's spades were solid, presumably he could have bid 3♠ rather than 2. I bid 4♣ showing at least 5-5.

Partner could bid 3♠ rather than 2. But I don't think that a failure to jump to 3♠ completely denies a solid suit. Partner might choose to take a slower route if there is a second suit (as here) or when partner wants to give you space to describe your hand. Once you show a positive, there is more reason for partner to take things more slowly.

That is certainly my style.

[Tramticket]

Partner probably wants to use RKCB and bidding 4C might give partner a problem.

We would have the agreement that we can't stop in 4S after a positive response to 2C and there is a lot to be said for just raising at this stage - partner has heard you give a positive and heard about your two suits.

[Tramticket]

 phoenixmj, on 2019-December-27, 21:43, said:

I should have bid 5 NT to ask for kings

Yes. 5NT also confirms that all key cards are present. Partner should then bid 7S.

[Cyberyeti]

 phoenixmj, on 2019-December-27, 19:01, said:

I had not considered jumping in spades after a 2 club open. We are basically in a game force tryng to find the right place and level, and I thought we were supposed to go slowly to exchange as much info as possible. This is interesting.

The attitude is right, hence the jump shows something specific and demands a cue. It says that I'm happy to play a grand in my suit opposite a small stiff and at a pinch a void.

I would open 1♠ on your hand, which is not going to be passed out.

To Akwoo: Partner's hand was AQJ10xx, Q, AKQ, Q10x 7♣ was the contract of choice, this is why you bid 4♣.

[Cyberyeti]

 Tramticket, on 2019-December-28, 00:36, said:

Partner could bid 3♠ rather than 2. But I don't think that a failure to jump to 3♠ completely denies a solid suit. Partner might choose to take a slower route if there is a second suit (as here) or when partner wants to give you space to describe your hand. Once you show a positive, there is more reason for partner to take things more slowly.

That is certainly my style.

The point is that if you have a solid suit of 7+ cards in a huge hand you almost never want to play in the second suit.

Here, there is no hand that wants to play in diamonds if the spades run (there is a faint possiblility if your hand is 742 rather than 7411).

[FelicityR]

 ahydra, on 2019-December-28, 00:26, said:

Indeed, if the bidding starts 2C-2H; 3S showing a solid suit, I bid 7S as East (or go via 5D exclusion if the "solid" might mean KQJT9xx(x)). We have 4 tops + controls everywhere + source of tricks in hearts just in case partner somehow can't produce 9 tops.

ahydra

The old-fashioned Acol book definition of solid is a minimum of ♠ AKQJxx or ♠AKQxxxx, though if trumps don't behave there is a chance of a loser but that would be bidding against the odds.

Even so, you are quite right saying that even if 'solid' might mean KQJT9xx, responder has so much in support of a 2♣ opener that it is easy to visualise the final contract.

Don't think I'll ever get, or have ever had, 15 HCPs and two good suits opposite a 2♣ opener in my entire bridge life

[nige1]

phoenixmj's bidding problem.
++++++++++++++++++++++

1. 5N = Pick a slam -- Intending to bid grand, anyway.
2. 7N = Hrothgar grand stlam try -- Has a lot to recommend it.
e..g. partner might have ♠ A K J x x x ♥ x x ♦ A K Q J ♣ Q
3. 4♣ = Descriptive of shape but doesn't get over strength.

If partner might have as few as 8.5 playing tricks and lack ♠A, all actions are fraught with danger.

---

[pescetom]

A jump to 3♠ for us imposes trumps and requires a control-bid, and that is what West would choose to do here, with or without the good news of 2♥.
So it would go something like:
2♣ - 2♥
3♠ - 4♣
4♦ - 4♥
5♣ - 5♦
5♥ - 5NT
7♠ - 7NT

[phoenixmj]

 pescetom, on 2019-December-28, 06:33, said:

A jump to 3♠ for us imposes trumps and requires a control-bid, and that is what West would choose to do here, with or without the good news of 2♥.
So it would go something like:
2♣ - 2♥
3♠ - 4♣
4♦ - 4♥
5♣ - 5♦
5♥ - 5NT
7♠ - 7NT

Question - what does the 5NT bid mean or ask for?

I can see that responder is in a better position to see 7 rather than 6 because responder knows about the kings. When I bid, Iknew we had first round control of all the suits and I certainly expected that I would get all the spades. My concern was the 2 losing diamonds - especially when I did not get indication of partner having spades. How do I know that both my losing diamonds are covered - especially since I know that there will likely be transportation issues with my 2 singletons.

Could you explain the 5NT, 7S sequence for me?

Thanks in advance.

This has all been very helpful. We will definitely adopt the jump bid showing declaration of suit and a strong suit.

[Cyberyeti]

 FelicityR, on 2019-December-28, 05:39, said:

Don't think I'll ever get, or have ever had, 15 HCPs and two good suits opposite a 2♣ opener in my entire bridge life

Best hand I ever held was x, A, Axxxxx, AKxxx

Partner's hand was AKQxxxxx, KQJx, x, void

Our auction 2♣-3♦-4♠-7N, I wish they'd led a spade requiring you to discard the ♥A but they led a prosaic minor suit

[dsLawsd]

Very fun stuff where agreements need to be formed before now to have the best auction. I am still famous in Phoenix for bidding slam in my void= it was the only one that made.

Here, I might consider the same or I might bid 5♦ which cannot be natural and let partner field it. He looking at his cards will almost always make an accurate assessment (or be fired!) Ha Ha.

5NT pick a slam has much to recommend it also in a finely tuned partnership.