[AL78]

Matchpoints

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A bottom with all but one other pair in 4♠. I'm inclined to think partner should have doubled on the second round but if she does, do I jump to 3♠? 2♠ would be an underbid I think.

[Cyberyeti]

Yup, double from E whatever it means if not pens, prefer 2♠ to 2♦

[mikeh]

I’d need to know more about methods to provide a proper critique…for example, do you play a weak 1N? If so, that changes the available inferences for west if, as I think clearly correct, opener raises spades

How she raises spades is again dependent on methods. I’m assuming you don’t play support doubles, since otherwise doubling is crystal clear.

Not playing support doubles means raising on 3 cards…but why on earth not?

All experienced players should know how to play 4-3 fits…I’m not joking…some 10 years ago the Canadian Senior Team Trials were decided on the last of a 64 board final when the trailing team (who would not have known the score but almost surely knew it was close) beat best friends of mine by bidding the only available grand, knowing as they did that they had only a 4-3 fit.

Here’s where methods matter. If playing a weak 1N, then the 2S bid is enough, in my view, for west to move towards game…either by bidding 4S or by making a try…probably the former because he has no easy try.

If playing strong notrump, then my view is that west has a tough choice especially at mps where bidding thin games is not a good tactic. 10xx in clubs is particularly bad unless opener is short (as she was here).

I wouldn’t criticize west for passing 2S, especially given that he has no clearly useful game try available. He wants help in clubs, but 3C is a slam try, not a game try, after the overcall.

[AL78]

mikeh, on 2021-October-26, 17:00, said:

I’d need to know more about methods to provide a proper critique…for example, do you play a weak 1N? If so, that changes the available inferences for west if, as I think clearly correct, opener raises spades

Sorry I should have included the basic system. Benji Acol, weak NT, no support doubles. I did say when the round was over that her hand was a good advertisement for support doubles, and she didn't know what I was talking about. At the end of the evening I wrote down on a piece of paper what a support double was which she appreciated.

In the absence of support doubles and if she had made a standard TOX instead of bidding 2♦, what do you think my next call should be? 2♠ is understating the hand but jumping to 3♠ sounds like overstating the suit quality, or should I hope for three spades to an honor opposite and just bid 3 or 4♠?

[mikeh]

AL78, on 2021-October-26, 17:09, said:

Sorry I should have included the basic system. Benji Acol, weak NT, no support doubles. I did say when the round was over that her hand was a good advertisement for support doubles, and she didn't know what I was talking about. At the end of the evening I wrote down on a piece of paper what a support double was which she appreciated.

In the absence of support doubles and if she had made a standard TOX instead of bidding 2♦, what do you think my next call should be? 2♠ is understating the hand but jumping to 3♠ sounds like overstating the suit quality, or should I hope for three spades to an honor opposite and just bid 3 or 4♠?

Why on earth can’t she raise spades?

I’ve played all kinds of notrump ranges. I played for several years with a very fine player who liked a style popular in Montreal wherein with a weak 1N method, the auction 1m 1M 2M promised 4 cards, but one shouldn’t play that after the overcall…especially if not playing support doubles. Here, 2S is clearly best…I’d do it even if partner will think I have 4. KQx with a stiff club is surely better (most of the time) than Jxxx and Qx in clubs, for example.

[steve2005]

What does double mean?
penalty-unlikely
values takeout-you have this (without denying 3 spades)
support-you have 3 spades

seems like double is good unless your playing it as the unlikely penalty double

[AL78]

mikeh, on 2021-October-26, 17:36, said:

Why on earth can’t she raise spades?

She can, and I would have done that or double, but many people I have played with at the club don't like showing support with three cards when there could only be four opposite (which is one reason for playing support doubles).

[AL78]

steve2005, on 2021-October-26, 18:14, said:

What does double mean?
penalty-unlikely
values takeout-you have this (without denying 3 spades)
support-you have 3 spades

seems like double is good unless your playing it as the unlikely penalty double

We don't play support doubles or penalty so double would be classic takeout showing a club shortage and tolerance for anything I respond. I would read it as showing a heart suit and almost certainly three spades.

[DavidKok]

AL78, on 2021-October-27, 02:22, said:

We don't play support doubles or penalty so double would be classic takeout showing a club shortage and tolerance for anything I respond. I would read it as showing a heart suit and almost certainly three spades.

That sounds rather like East's hand. I think this answers the title question.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

without playing suppX, East should make a TOX, 2D sounds like 6 carder.
The TOX enables you also to find a 44 in heart, it may be there, in which
case you would also have discovered th 53, and once in a while you may find p
with clubs.

If East makes a TOX, I would go with 2S, it is ok to have max. values for a
given bid, playing MP, you want to go plus.
Dont ask me, if I follow this last bid of advice myself, nevertheless I think it is
not the worst one.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mikeh]

AL78, on 2021-October-27, 02:19, said:

She can, and I would have done that or double, but many people I have played with at the club don't like showing support with three cards when there could only be four opposite (which is one reason for playing support doubles).

Rodwell invented support doubles because he had a partner (not, I think, Meckstroth) who likes to respond on a 3 card major. It wasn’t invented to avoid 4-3 fits! It was invented to avoid 3-3 fits.

Playing so-called moysian fits is a very valuable skill for any declarer to have. Obviously one prefers more trump, but sometimes the 4-3 is the best spot and on other occasions, one ends up stuck in such a fit…it helps not to panic when that happens😃

[AL78]

mikeh, on 2021-October-27, 07:57, said:

Rodwell invented support doubles because he had a partner (not, I think, Meckstroth) who likes to respond on a 3 card major. It wasn’t invented to avoid 4-3 fits! It was invented to avoid 3-3 fits.

Playing so-called moysian fits is a very valuable skill for any declarer to have. Obviously one prefers more trump, but sometimes the 4-3 is the best spot and on other occasions, one ends up stuck in such a fit…it helps not to panic when that happens😃

Such a hand came up later in the session:

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I opened 1♦ to make my second bid easier (weak NT and didn't want to open 1NT with a small singleton) I chose 4♥ rather than 5♦ being MPs. I played in a seven card fit which should have made but I carelessly messed it up halfway through and went one down. Should have been a complete top instead of a complete bottom .

[Tramticket]

AL78, on 2021-October-27, 02:22, said:

We don't play support doubles or penalty so double would be classic takeout showing a club shortage and tolerance for anything I respond. I would read it as showing a heart suit and almost certainly three spades.

steve2005, on 2021-October-26, 18:14, said:

What does double mean?
penalty-unlikely
values takeout-you have this (without denying 3 spades)
support-you have 3 spades

seems like double is good unless your playing it as the unlikely penalty double

I am not a fan of Support Doubles in a Weak NT context. There is one hand which is difficult to handle in this auction, When playing a Weak No Trump - a balanced hand in the strong no trump range, that was planning to rebid no trumps but doesn't have a stopper. For me this is the best use of the double

This hand looks like at least 15+ to me and I would double.

[AL78]

Tramticket, on 2021-October-27, 09:18, said:

I am not a fan of Support Doubles in a Weak NT context. There is one hand which is difficult to handle in this auction, When playing a Weak No Trump - a balanced hand in the strong no trump range, that was planning to rebid no trumps but doesn't have a stopper. For me this is the best use of the double

I picked up a similar hand although I didn't double:

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Not difficult to take +800.

[akwoo]

Tramticket, on 2021-October-27, 09:18, said:

I am not a fan of Support Doubles in a Weak NT context. There is one hand which is difficult to handle in this auction, When playing a Weak No Trump - a balanced hand in the strong no trump range, that was planning to rebid no trumps but doesn't have a stopper. For me this is the best use of the double

This hand looks like at least 15+ to me and I would double.

This is a difference between K-S and Acol, essentially.

I play a K-S derived weak NT, and, for me, PASS shows the strong NT, stopper or no stopper. I get back the support double.

Think about it - playing X shows the balanced hand in the strong NT range, what hand do you pass with? I can hardly think of any that don't have their suit, and in that case I'm usually happy for partner to think I have more and make a reopening double.