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2 aces, 2 jacks

#21 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2024-November-05, 02:23

View Postpescetom, on 2024-November-04, 16:12, said:

No typo although I may have exaggerated while rushing to a tournament... mikeh is always forgiven for hyperbole :)
But I do imagine most pairs have some agreement for seeking a minor fit after 2NT and I find it hard to imagine them stopping before 6 at least.
For better or worse I do think we would have bid the grand in clubs:
_____ P
2NT - 3 (minors)
4 (5+) - 4 (RKCB)
4 (03) - 5 (K?)
5 (K, !K) - 5NT (K?)
7 (yes) - P

Why do you see 7 or even 6 going down as it happens?

If you're bidding 7 why not go the whole hog and bid 7N
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#22 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2024-November-05, 02:28

View Postmw64ahw, on 2024-November-05, 02:23, said:

If you're bidding 7 why not go the whole hog and bid 7N


Because 7N-2 is worse than 7-1 and you're getting all the matchpoints for any grand ?
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#23 User is online   DavidKok 

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Posted 2024-November-05, 02:47

View Postsmerriman, on 2024-November-04, 14:51, said:

For completeness' sake, if this isn't a 2NT opener, is there a reasonable "standard" rebid after 1? I remember having a similar hand in the past, where I was planning to reverse into diamonds, and was flummoxed when my partner responded 1.
Good question. I don't think there is. With a (32)=2=6 I think you are supposed to fake jump shift into your major, which I think is every bit as terrifying as it sounds. With 2=2=3=6, or certain strong hands with 7(+) clubs, I am not sure there is a systemic rebid in standard. My bad, 2NT is likely the smallest lie then. Perhaps you could try 3, though I think this should be 4=5 in the minors rather than 3=6.
Since this is the I/A forum I can go into a bit more detail. In general I think having a good continuation system over the 1 and 1 opening is really valuable. I sometimes joke that people open 1NT with semibalanced hands so much only because they don't know how to bid over 1m, and there is a slight truth to it if the 1m continuations have systemic rebid issues (though here the alternative is 2NT, or 2-then-2NT).
As the 1m openings are the lowest ones in the system, and also the most common ones by far, it pays to have a good system over it and be very familiar with it. It will come up often, and will gain a decent amount every time it comes up. I think a big part of why people struggle to find minor suit slams (case in point, actually) is that they don't have good methods over their 1m openings, and then have to make space-consuming bids that often fail to describe the hand at the same time. Even opening 2NT is an example of this.

I like Dutch Doubleton over 1 and an unbalanced 1 opening with 1NT Gazzilli, but I think this is several steps too far for most players. Instead discuss Walsh style or Transfer Walsh, make agreements about your XYZ or XYNT or Checkback Stayman or other artificial rebids, discuss when you pass the 1m opening, discuss which rebids are always unbalanced, and have it clear what your jumps mean and how your inverted minor works. There is room for more artificiality here but the above is the better part of an 80/20 rule, and you can always expand from there. The inverted minor in particular has me frustrated regularly, people really seem to make that up on the go.
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#24 User is online   pescetom 

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Posted 2024-November-05, 03:17

I assumed that by "as it happens" you meant all four actual hands, not just NS.

View Postsmerriman, on 2024-November-04, 17:43, said:

The opponents lead a heart, and you have a heart and diamond loser. Unless I'm missing something, the only chance for more tricks is the queen luckily dropping doubleton as it did here.



Yes North would have done better to stop in 6 when he learned the hearts King was missing, agreed.
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#25 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2024-November-05, 03:44

View Postpescetom, on 2024-November-05, 03:17, said:

Yes North would have done better to stop in 6 when he learned the hearts King was missing, agreed.


No, the heart king is irrelevant, the diamond queen is the key card
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#26 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2024-November-05, 06:22

View PostCyberyeti, on 2024-November-05, 02:28, said:

Because 7N-2 is worse than 7-1 and you're getting all the matchpoints for any grand ?

7N-2 is the same as 7-2 if the Q doesn't fall
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#27 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2024-November-05, 08:24

View Postmw64ahw, on 2024-November-05, 06:22, said:

7N-2 is the same as 7-2 if the Q doesn't fall


7= vs 7N-1 if stiff Q, and if they lead the trump you're told to lead against a grand, 7 is almost always -1 if the Q doesn't drop
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#28 User is online   pescetom 

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Posted 2024-November-05, 10:07

View PostCyberyeti, on 2024-November-05, 03:44, said:

No, the heart king is irrelevant, the diamond queen is the key card

If South has the heart king it's quite likely he has the loser(s) in hearts or spades rather than diamonds, from North's point of view. He also has one or two HCP unaccounted for which does not exclude a Queen. But yes it's not a good risk to go beyond 6.
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#29 User is offline   fuzzyquack 

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Posted 2024-November-06, 05:05

View Postjillybean, on 2024-November-04, 13:40, said:



This was a hand from our 'unsanctioned' game last week.
Not surprisingly. most played in 5C or 3nt. 2 pairs found the club slam.
2 pairs, including me, played in 2 or 3 clubs and one pair insisted on playing in their 8 card diamond fit.

I like David's explanation of while you want to explore, there is no room unless you have the advanced methods which Mike describes.

That's the Bridge World hand of death. 2N won't score well in their bidding competition; 2 seems to be the best lie.
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#30 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2024-November-06, 05:34

View Postfuzzyquack, on 2024-November-06, 05:05, said:

That's the Bridge World hand of death. 2N won't score well in their bidding competition; 2 seems to be the best lie.


Opening it as 21 bal may score OK.

Even if we didn't have an inverted raise available, our 2N rebid is GF unbal (weak NT, 1N rebid 15-bad 19, no gap to 2N opener), so we could start 1-1-2N-3(semi forced)-3(6+3)
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#31 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2024-November-06, 09:51

Interesting hand
It seems at first glance for many of us intermediate players on a heart lead making 7 clubs is much easier than making 6 clubs.
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#32 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2024-November-06, 11:29

View Postmike777, on 2024-November-06, 09:51, said:

Interesting hand
It seems at first glance for many of us intermediate players on a heart lead making 7 clubs is much easier than making 6 clubs.


How do you play 6 (S) on a non heart lead ? ignore the possibility of a first round diamond ruff
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#33 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2024-November-06, 12:27

Pull trump
Play spades
AK then low D.
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#34 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2024-November-06, 13:26

View Postmike777, on 2024-November-06, 12:27, said:

Pull trump
Play spades
AK then low D.


At teams, this loses to all 5 diamonds on your right, pull trumps, diamond to the 7 if E follows with the 5, if this loses you can ruff the diamonds out and pitch your heart on the 5th one. If the 10/9/8 are played, win. If W doesn't follow, play off the spades and play Ax for a diamond trick or a ruff and discard. If W does follow, you can always get your heart away on the 5th diamond.

At pairs, this massively reduces your chance of an overtrick so you prob can't afford to do it.
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#35 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2024-November-06, 14:16

Ty.
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