[harikannan]

1H (P) P (1S) 2H shows 6 hearts and how many points?
1D (P) P (2C) Dbl is take out and how many points?
1D (P) P (1S) Dbl is take out and how many points?
1H (P) P (1S) 2C is how many points?

I am asking because the gib shows different ranges from 11-21 total points to 16-22 total points. I am not able to figure out why?

Thanks in advance.

[mike777]

harikannan, on 2025-April-13, 09:56, said:

1H (P) P (1S) 2H shows 6 hearts and how many points?
1D (P) P (2C) Dbl is take out and how many points?
1D (P) P (1S) Dbl is take out and how many points?
1H (P) P (1S) 2C is how many points?

I am asking because the gib shows different ranges from 11-21 total points to 16-22 total points. I am not able to figure out why?

Thanks in advance.

For starters define and tell us how you measure "points"?
then tell us how you define and measure "total points"?

These are made up terms so tell us how you define and measure them?
If you dont know, then that is the problem...

[jillybean]

tough question, Mike

[harikannan]

These are made up terms so tell us how you define and measure them?
If you dont know, then that is the problem...
[/quote]

This question was posed as gib describes it. So, i assume they mean what is meant in gib's system notes. If you are inclined to ignore 'points' and explain the logic, you are most welcome as i am interested in the logic why different strength is required in those opener's rebids.

[smerriman]

Is your question:

- what are the GIB description for these bids (none are 11-21 for reference, it describes them all as showing extras)
- why GIB describes them differently (if indeed it does)
- whether it's a good idea to have different ranges for a human partnership, completely unrelated to GIB
- something else?

[harikannan]

 smerriman, on 2025-April-13, 21:28, said:

Is your question:

- what are the GIB description for these bids (none are 11-21 for reference, it describes them all as showing extras)
- why GIB describes them differently (if indeed it does)
- whether it's a good idea to have different ranges for a human partnership, completely unrelated to GIB
- something else?

The first one was descirbed by gib as 6+h, 15-19 tp
The second as 11-21 tp and take out
The third as 16-22 tp and take out
The last as 15-22 tp

I wanted to know why gib expects different strengths for these bids and what is the best way to play them in a human partnership. Thanks.

[smerriman]

harikannan, on 2025-April-13, 22:14, said:

The second as 11-21 tp and take out

Nope, it's described as 16-22 total points, same as the other double. Maybe you're thinking of some other auction.

[harikannan]

 smerriman, on 2025-April-13, 22:35, said:

Nope, it's described as 16-22 total points, same as the other double. Maybe you're thinking of some other auction.

I had written it down when i played, but unable to locate my hand. While i am sure about the description, now i wonder whether it might be 'ben' and not 'gib'. In hindsight, i realise i ought to have saved the hands when i intend to ask for clarifications. My bad. I don't know if there is a way to locate specific hands from my history.

[smerriman]

harikannan, on 2025-April-13, 22:49, said:

While i am sure about the description, now i wonder whether it might be 'ben' and not 'gib'.

This wouldn't make a difference; the bid descriptions are loaded from the same place (not programmed into Ben at all), unless it's a SAYC bot / Argine / something else. But for GIB, I checked every sequence where 4th seat makes a balancing overcall, and all doubles by opener show 16-22.

[harikannan]

 smerriman, on 2025-April-13, 22:59, said:

This wouldn't make a difference; the bid descriptions are loaded from the same place (not programmed into Ben at all), unless it's a SAYC bot / Argine / something else. But for GIB, I checked every sequence where 4th seat makes a balancing overcall, and all doubles by opener show 16-22.

Thanks for confirming that. I have played gib, ben and gib advanced robots. I will go through all my hands and hopefully find out if i was right or mistaken.

[johnu]

GIB definition of total points (TP)

Quote

HCP vs Total Points
Gib uses both old fashioned HCP (A=4, K=3, Q=2, J=1)) and “Total points” (HCP+3 for void, 2 for singleton, 1 for doubleton, but short suits containing an honor are reduced by 1 point). It will usually force to game if it thinks it has 25 Total Points between the two hands.

[Joe_Old]

In all of your auctions Responder has passed, so Opener can't expect much support. Therefore, Opener will not take an action at his second opportunity (in direct seat) without additional values. Those values might be honor cards, or distribution (partnership agreements should factor in), but Opener will not risk a disastrous result with a minimum hand.