[jillybean]

Just checking, after an Opening Pass Out of Rotation (offender's partner was opening bidder)

Law 29, LHO has the option of accepting the OPOOR, auction continues, no restrictions or rectification?

If not accepted, offenders partner makes opening bid, offender must pass at first opportunity.

[axman]

 jillybean, on 2025-June-05, 07:33, said:

Just checking, after an Opening Pass Out of Rotation (offender's partner was opening bidder)



If not accepted, offenders partner makes opening bid, offender must pass at first opportunity.

This is your opportunity to increase your reading comprehension via practice.

[jillybean]

LOL yes. I think I've got it right, the doubt sets in when asked if PASS is a bid?
Call, bid ? is there a difference in the Laws or are all cards in the bidding box (with the exception of the Alert and Director) a call/bid?

[mycroft]

Almost. If it were 2016, you would be right.

Now:

• All calls out of turn are handled with the Comparable Call dance
  
• except (1) actions by the correct caller's LHO, (2) if the correct caller passes, which are repeated (section A in 30-32),
  
• (and non-initial calls by the correct caller's RHO, which are treated as "attempted change of call". This should be obvious, 99+% of them are.)

It's written in the FLB as "at RHO's turn to call", which always confuses me (and may others) because I think in terms of direction *from the person whose turn it is*, not "where is the turn in relation to the offender?" So I've reversed it here. Just know when you're reading the headings in Laws 29-32 where the POV is.

So partner passes in third, not accepted. Dealer has UI and must make a "normal"(*) call; when it gets around to offender, they play the Comparable Call game (which might bar partner at their *second* turn to call).

(*) I'm handwaving the 73C and 16B language here. We all know it, right? Note: in the article given to the ACBL Directors explaining this back in 2019 or so, this was the biggest "yeah, have to be more careful about that" part of it - especially the "dealer holds KQT-seventh of clubs and a couple of quacks. Partner opens 1NT in third seat. If dealer doesn't open 3♣, even though they know you're preempting partner (and likely will have to pass next round), you definitely have to investigate, and likely have to rule."

[mycroft]

Pass (and Double, and Redouble) are calls. Bids are calls as well, but Pass is not a Bid. Note: this distinction is lost on 80+% of bridge players, and is misused (at times) by 100% (maybe minus blackshoe).

Which is why there are three Laws for calls out of turn, even though they are (in the 2017 version) almost identical.

[jillybean]

Got it , I hope
P X XX are calls
Bids , specifying suits are a subset of calls.

[blackshoe]

 mycroft, on 2025-June-05, 10:31, said:

Note: in the article given to the ACBL Directors explaining this back in 2019 or so,

Hm. I don't recall receiving such an article. Possible reasons for this:
1. I have CRS.
2. As a mere club level Director, ACBL didn't care to give me that article. :-(

[blackshoe]

 mycroft, on 2025-June-05, 10:34, said:

Pass (and Double, and Redouble) are calls. Bids are calls as well, but Pass is not a Bid. Note: this distinction is lost on 80+% of bridge players, and is misused (at times) by 100% (maybe minus blackshoe).

I have misspoken in this way. :-(

[pescetom]

 mycroft, on 2025-June-05, 10:34, said:

Pass (and Double, and Redouble) are calls. Bids are calls as well, but Pass is not a Bid. Note: this distinction is lost on 80+% of bridge players, and is misused (at times) by 100% (maybe minus blackshoe).

Hey, make that minus pescetom too
I have many defects but not this one.

I also insist that all suits are denominations but not all denominations are suits.

Heck, I even baptized an unlikely Italian noun ("Distributore") to identify Dealer (out of repulsion for the normal Italian bridge jargon "Dichiarante" which is also Declarer ).

[mycroft]

blackshoe: 2. Definitely 2.
pescetom: okay, I'll believe you. But even "your bid, partner?" when they've lost track of the world? Or are you going to call that a "hope" rather than a "mis-speak"?

[mike777]

mycroft, on 2025-June-05, 10:34, said:

Pass (and Double, and Redouble) are calls. Bids are calls as well, but Pass is not a Bid. Note: this distinction is lost on 80+% of bridge players, and is misused (at times) by 100% (maybe minus blackshoe).

Which is why there are three Laws for calls out of turn, even though they are (in the 2017 version) almost identical.

the vote is in

From now on, Pass is a bid.

Settled law, smile.

[barmar]

My regular club partner is anal about saying "call", e.g. "Whose call is it?" It always sounds weird to me.

[axman]

barmar, on 2025-June-06, 12:46, said:

My regular club partner is anal about saying "call", e.g. "Whose call is it?" It always sounds weird to me.

Is there a word spelled t-u-r-n? I wonder what it means.

[blackshoe]

I suppose we've argued about sillier things here, but I can't recall any.

[BudH]

1. Yes, the LHO of the opening pass out of turn can accept it and make any legal call. No restrictions on anyone if that happens.

2. If LHO does not accept it, the dealer makes his opening call (but is reminded he can't use the fact he knows his partner does not have a first seat opening bid). When it is his partner's (offender's) turn, if he makes a call which limits his hand to less than an opening bid (so his partner has the same or more information from the legal bid compared to the withdrawn pass), then the auction continues with no restrictions.

If partner opened a natural 1 of a suit, then a pass, 1NT (6-10 points), 2NT (if an invitational 11-12 points) or a non-forcing single or double raise of opener would show a hand worth less than an opening bid. Any other call (for example, any call that might be made by a hand with a minimum opening bid or better) will force partner to pass ONCE at his next turn.

There may also be lead penalties the first time dealer is on lead if opponents declare.

[jillybean]

BudH, on 2025-June-08, 10:42, said:

1. Yes, the LHO of the opening pass out of turn can accept it and make any legal call. No restrictions on anyone if that happens.

2. If LHO does not accept it, the dealer makes his opening call (but is reminded he can't use the fact he knows his partner does not have a first seat opening bid). When it is his partner's (offender's) turn, if he makes a call which limits his hand to less than an opening bid (so his partner has the same or more information from the legal bid compared to the withdrawn pass), then the auction continues with no restrictions.

If partner opened a natural 1 of a suit, then a pass, 1NT (6-10 points), 2NT (if an invitational 11-12 points) or a non-forcing single or double raise of opener would show a hand worth less than an opening bid. Any other call (for example, any call that might be made by a hand with a minimum opening bid or better) will force partner to pass ONCE at his next turn.

There may also be lead penalties the first time dealer is on lead if opponents declare.

Are you sure?

[pescetom]

blackshoe, on 2025-June-06, 18:16, said:

I suppose we've argued about sillier things here, but I can't recall any.

Upgrading a good 14 HCP to 15-17 1NT?

Or the equivalent to get Italian knickers in a twist, showing 5-5 with 5-good 4.