[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

the seeting: you are playing the 3rd match in a BBO Liga format, the team you are facing is at the bottom,
contrary to your team, after beating one of the favourites you are in the pole, and following it up with
beating another possible 2nd contender for 1st place.

You are playing with your standard p, i.e. you can assume anything, ... at the table we played a 5 card
major system with weak NT.
All green in 4th you hold

♠K864
♥A84
♦AQ82
♣74

The bidding proceeds

(Pass) - 1♣ (1) - (2♠ (2)) - 3NT (3)
(Pass) - 4♣ (4) - (Pass) - ??? (5)

(1) 3+
(2) alerted as weak 2
(3) hopefully you agree, 2NT would not have been Good-Bad (it used to be), so there was
a certain lack of alternatives
(4) Clubs and certainly not a KC ask
(5) Over to you

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Tramticket]

The 4♣ bid is a slam try. 4NT and 5♣ would say that we are unsuitable for slam and of those two options, 4NT would be the better choice with the small doubleton club. But with two aces and the ♠K sitting nicely we must show interest. I bid 4♦ (cue bid).

[Cyberyeti]

Tramticket, on 2025-June-06, 01:04, said:

The 4♣ bid is a slam try. 4NT and 5♣ would say that we are unsuitable for slam and of those two options, 4NT would be the better choice with the small doubleton club. But with two aces and the ♠K sitting nicely we must show interest. I bid 4♦ (cue bid).

as I've essentially shown a balanced hand 4♣ in principle sets the suit, so 4♦ is kickback for us and I'll use that

[Tramticket]

Cyberyeti, on 2025-June-06, 01:24, said:

as I've essentially shown a balanced hand 4♣ in principle sets the suit, so 4♦ is kickback for us and I'll use that

I agree that 4♣ sets the suit, but we have one last chance to suggest playing in NT and 4NT would be natural, non-forcing.

If you have 4♦ as ace-asking, that is reasonable.

[P_Marlowe]

If you use unconditional Ace Asking, he will tell you, that he has 2 KC with the Queen of trumps.
If you use conditional Ace Asking, he will tell you, that he has min.

We dont play that.

If you make a diamond cue, you will get a 4H cue, first or 2nd round, shortage possible.

[mw64ahw]

And playing Kickbo you bid 4♦ showing 2KC followed by further cue-bidding to check for tricks/uncontrolled suits (not an issue here)

[Cyberyeti]

OK, to the ace ask, he shows 2+Q (if he has a spade void as well would be a different bid).

Is AKQJxxx and a K enough to remove 3N to 4♣ if it has 0-1 spades maybe ?

Is KQJxxxxx and ♠A enough, no you remove to 5♣ with that, 4♣ should be better

There are plenty of hands where slam is bad, but it makes because preempter doesn't find the required heart lead (example x, xxx, Kx, AKQJxxx where on a heart lead is close to no play, but on anything else, ♠ A onside will sort it and of course KJ rather than Kx it's cold)

I think it's worthy of further exploration if partner replies 5♣ to 4♦, but you may get to a bad slam.

[P_Marlowe]

Cyberyeti, on 2025-June-06, 05:19, said:

OK, to the ace ask, he shows 2+Q (if he has a spade void as well would be a different bid).
<snip>

You can basically rule out a spade void, ..., I have no real exp. what he would answer to a 4D
KC ask, but with 2KC+Q and a void he would blast it.

[Cyberyeti]

P_Marlowe, on 2025-June-06, 05:54, said:

You can basically rule out a spade void, ..., I have no real exp. what he would answer to a 4D
KC ask, but with 2KC+Q and a void he would blast it.

5♠ for us after which I would bid 5N (tell me more)

So with that ruled out, I think I just blast 6, anything else looks like I have ♠A rather than K

[pescetom]

In one partnership 4D is RKCB, in the others a control-bid. I prefer the latter, but either should work out fairly well.
After RKCB, if he has a spades void then he's going to reply 5D (assuming even keycards), after which 5H asks the void and he replies 5S. But I would give precedence to 5S which asks for the Q and specific Kings.

[mike777]

I have overbid my hand in my style.
Prefer 2NT, natural 12-13.
3NT 14-16.
Rats.

Now over partners slam try will bid 5C.

[P_Marlowe]

mike777, on 2025-June-06, 09:16, said:

I have overbid my hand in my style.
Prefer 2NT
Rats.

Now over partners slam try will bid 5C.

This is the positive (?!) gift of modern bidding gadgets, we can no longer bid a natural 2NT,
even after a neg. X we would not be able to stop in 2NT. In case it is of any interest,
2NT would show a pos. club raise for us.

Besides we open a tad bit sounder than you, although not Roth/Stone, I called it a tame rule
of 20 version, ..., but since we are talking about the opening of my p, lets scrap the "tame",
I may have already said it, if he goes in overdrive he has the hope, that he finds something on
the table, if I go overdrive, ... well there is nothing to stop the free fall, happy jumping.

[mike777]

pescetom, on 2025-June-06, 08:51, said:

In one partnership 4D is RKCB, in the others a control-bid. I prefer the latter, but either should work out fairly well.
After RKCB, if he has a spades void then he's going to reply 5D (assuming even keycards), after which 5H asks the void and he replies 5S. But I would give precedence to 5S which asks for the Q and specific Kings.

Detailed agreements.
Void showing so often complicated in finding out more details
This is really detailed and complicated
But it works if you remember it.
Thanks for sharing