[Polixenes]

In this auction
1♦ - Double - 1♠ - Double

What does this second double mean?

(a) Penalty with juicy spade holding
(b) 44 in Clubs and Hearts saying "I don't mind what you choose partner"
© Club support but only a Heart tolerance (3 cards)
(d) Something else?

If you chose (a) would it make a difference if the second Double was by a passed hand?

[jillybean]

Take out, equal preference for Clubs and Hearts

[P_Marlowe]

Polixenes, on 2025-November-06, 11:46, said:

In this auction
1♦ - Double - 1♠ - Double

What does this second double mean?

(a) Penalty with juicy spade holding
(b) 44 in Clubs and Hearts saying "I don't mind what you choose partner"
© Club support but only a Heart tolerance (3 cards)
(d) Something else?

If you chose (a) would it make a difference if the second Double was by a passed hand?

I think a) used to be standard, and we still play it that way, but responsive b)
may have gained.
The passed hand status would not change the meaning of the X for us.

[pescetom]

In most partnerships (b) responsive hearts and clubs, in one partnership (d) exactly 4 card hearts (partner is almost certain to hold 3 or 4).

[Polixenes]

Thanks folks, I'll ask my partner if we can agree the (b) option, possessing both missing suits.

[Cyberyeti]

d, exactly 4 decent spades, 2♠ would show 5+

[Huibertus]

Polixenes, on 2025-November-06, 11:46, said:

In this auction
1♦ - Double - 1♠ - Double

What does this second double mean?

(a) Penalty with juicy spade holding
(b) 44 in Clubs and Hearts saying "I don't mind what you choose partner"
© Club support but only a Heart tolerance (3 cards)
(d) Something else?

If you chose (a) would it make a difference if the second Double was by a passed hand?

Don't let the fool you with mini-psychs, this is the perfect situation for it, big ♦ fit and no spades. Double has to mean "That is what I wanted to bid". "Wanted" not being "had to".

As for the advocates of responsive; partner doubled, you should feel free to bid ♥ and ♣ and if you have the values for a responsive double you can just bid 2♥ and 3♣ over further competition, if partner's hand is bad for both he didn't have a double.

[bluenikki]

It shows 4+ spades, but it is misleading to call it penalties. The purpose is to retain the possibility of declaring spades.

It's not for exposing a psych, but rather exposing xxxx in spades.

[P_Marlowe]

bluenikki, on 2025-November-06, 18:34, said:

It shows 4+ spades, but it is misleading to call it penalties. The purpose is to retain the possibility of declaring spades.

It's not for exposing a psych, but rather exposing xxxx in spades.

Yes. Bidding 1S withh xxxx is common, and why not?
The req. that the first X showes 4-4 in the majors is a best a wish. And if you add partnership, that double with basically all bal. hands, if this is reasonable.
You have to bid 1S, or you are missing your spade fit.

And although I voted a), the intention why we play x as showing spades is this.

[bluenikki]

P_Marlowe, on 2025-November-07, 03:34, said:

Yes. Bidding 1S withh xxxx is common, and why not?
The req. that the first X showes 4-4 in the majors is a best a wish. And if you add partnership, that double with basically all bal. hands, if this is reasonable.
You have to bid 1S, or you are missing your spade fit.

And although I voted a), the intention why we play x as showing spades is this.

And if advancer can't show spades then their side misses the spade fit.

[mycroft]

Frankly, there are two reasons why b) is becoming more common (to the point where I would assume it in any partnership I haven't actually discussed it in):

• It just comes up so much more often, no matter whether responder is psyching (who even knows this is an option any more?) or "xxxx"-ing, and in a competitive auction, you want to find your fit more than you want to play in the major (and hope it's a fit).
  
• Nobody knows how to penalty double below game any more (or defend when they do). And for valid reasons - they're just as rewarding when they happen as they were in Simon's time, but almost all of his "proposal to partner" doubles have been converted to a conventional (usually fit-showing or -looking) meaning, so players don't get practise with them. And if you want to know why the shift to conventional meanings, see #1. "When they happen" just isn't often enough, especially at matchpoints, where "rewarding" is the same top as +130 into all the +110s (and so is +150 for -3 undoubled!)

Now, I'm a holdout for this being penalty, because *I'm* the sort of person who will bid the short major with a decent diamond fit, hoping to play 3♦ after they can't find their spades; but I have given up on it with one partner (our "takeout double" is 1NT, which does make a difference, but still). But even I will do what partner thinks is right, at least in a non-regular partnership, because #1.