[rogerclee]

Uncontested
1♠ - 2♣
3♠ - ?

1) Do you play that 3♠ requests a cue or demands a cue?
2) Do you play 4♣ natural, suggesting another place to play, or a cue?

[han]

1. requests.
2. cue.

[kenrexford]

han, on Feb 24 2008, 12:48 AM, said:

1. requests.
2. cue.

Always the polite one.

[helene_t]

Depends how good a suit 3♠ shows. I used to play that 3♠ should be a suit playable opposite a stiff but not necessarily a void. Also, a natural 2NT response was available so a hand that would want to cue but didn't have ace or king of clubs would not be so common. Besides it's not really clear whether it's a good idea to cue a the ♣K here. So with those parameters, 4♣ would be natural.

[PrecisionL]

helene_t, on Feb 24 2008, 09:34 AM, said:

Depends how good a suit 3♠ shows.

Some of my partners play that a jump rebid by opener shows a solid suit: AKQxxx+. Hardy (Standard Bridge bidding for the 21st Century, pg. 58) teaches a good suit (AQJT9x KQx Axx x) AND a good hand.

1) Requests a cue bid
2) Cue: A or K

Larry

[the hog]

I have always played that it shows a 1 loser suit or better. This to me makes more sense than a solid suit due to the frequency of it occurring.
Requests a cue.

[brianshark]

Spades are trump (or maybe you can play in 3NT, not sure about this) and 4♣ is a cue showing 2 of the top 3 honours in your suit. I reckon it should request strongly a cue-bid. Maybe even demand. Gosh I'm feeling indecisive this morning.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

since nobody brought it up, just two added remarks:

The answer to #1 depends on the 2/1 style you are playing,
if you play 2/1 Lawrence style, i.e. respondes rebid in his suit
can be passed, 3S has to be weaker than would be the case,
if you played 2C as forcing to the level or higher.

If you play 2/1 Lawrence style, I would say, that a cue
responder can ommit a cue, in case he is dead min.

A bit more interesting may be my 2nd remark:

The answer to #2 depends partly on the meaning
of a 3C respnse to the 1S opening bid.
If you play SJS, than responder cant hold a suit worth
setting trumps anymore, hence 4C has to be a cue.

If you dont play SJS, than you have answer for yourself,
what responder has to bid, if he happens to hold a strong
1-suiter himself, in this case I would say 4C, that 4C is
still natural (and setting trumps), any other suit bid, being
cues agreeing spades.
For whats it worth, that is how we play 4C.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[han]

P_Marlowe, on Feb 25 2008, 08:43 AM, said:

The answer to #1 depends on the 2/1 style you are playing,
if you play 2/1 Lawrence style, i.e. respondes rebid in his suit
can be passed, 3S has to be weaker than would be the case,
if you played 2C as forcing to the level or higher.

?????

[Fluffy]

if responder has a quacky opening he is wellcome to bid 4♠ in my opinion.

On my agreements any control responder shows must be from an ace.

[P_Marlowe]

han, on Feb 25 2008, 10:22 AM, said:

P_Marlowe, on Feb 25 2008, 08:43 AM, said:

The answer to #1 depends on the 2/1 style you are playing,
if you play 2/1 Lawrence style, i.e. respondes rebid in his suit
can be passed, 3S has to be weaker than would be the case,
if you played 2C as forcing to the level or higher.

?????

Hi,

I was thinking on the auction

1S - 2C
2S (1) - 3C (2)
3S (3)

(1) does not need to be a 6 carder
(2) inv. hand with 6 clubs, can be passed
(3) forcing ???

If you answered the the last question with
yes, than your requirements for a jump rebid
can be higher, if you answer the question with
no, well you will need to lower your requirements

With kind regards
Marlowe

[cherdano]

P_Marlowe, on Feb 25 2008, 09:28 AM, said:

han, on Feb 25 2008, 10:22 AM, said:

P_Marlowe, on Feb 25 2008, 08:43 AM, said:

The answer to #1 depends on the 2/1 style you are playing,
if you play 2/1 Lawrence style, i.e. respondes rebid in his suit
can be passed, 3S has to be weaker than would be the case,
if you played 2C as forcing to the level or higher.

?????

Hi,

I was thinking on the auction

1S - 2C
2S (1) - 3C (2)
3S (3)

(1) does not need to be a 6 carder
(2) inv. hand with 6 clubs, can be passed
(3) forcing ???

If you answered the the last question with
yes, than your requirements for a jump rebid
can be higher, if you answer the question with
no, well you will need to lower your requirements

With kind regards
Marlowe

I am sure 3S here is forcing in Lawrence style.

[pclayton]

I prefer a solid or one loser suit opposite a void.

[kfay]

To me 3♠ on this auction sets trump. No ifs ands or buts.

[Apollo81]

The posted auction says "I have extra values, and spades are trumps, period" Thus 4♣ is a cue. Cuebids aren't mandatory. Playing serious/non-serious helps here.

[whereagles]

I prefer 3♠ as a 0-1 loser suit with extras. It does not, however, set spades as trumps.

[Cascade]

whereagles, on Feb 26 2008, 07:34 AM, said:

It does not, however, set spades as trumps.

I wouldn't like to play a style where it did.

That would mean that for almost all single-suited hands with six or more spades I have two choices:

1. 2♠ Extremely wide ranging

2. 3♠ Demanding spades are trumps

Sure there is also 4♠ whatever that means but that too should be fairly specific in a sensible system after a GF response.

That means about 99% of hands will bid 2♠ and not provide very much information and very few hands will give additional information.

I cannot see how this is an efficient structure.

[pclayton]

Cascade, on Feb 25 2008, 11:54 AM, said:

whereagles, on Feb 26 2008, 07:34 AM, said:

It does not, however, set spades as trumps.

I wouldn't like to play a style where it did.

That would mean that for almost all single-suited hands with six or more spades I have two choices:

1. 2♠ Extremely wide ranging

2. 3♠ Demanding spades are trumps

Sure there is also 4♠ whatever that means but that too should be fairly specific in a sensible system after a GF response.

That means about 99% of hands will bid 2♠ and not provide very much information and very few hands will give additional information.

I cannot see how this is an efficient structure.

Agree. 3♠ hogs so much space that we will have a difficult time finding another fit, if in fact one exists. It's only sensible that a jump like 3♠ sets trump.

Echo Noble's comments about using Serious 3N here (or a variant).

[mikeh]

I like it to be solid trump: the absolute worst holding I would have is AKQ109x: some play for no loser opposite a stiff or even a void. It also shows some extras. It is a slam move.

While this seems to narrow the chance of using the bid, I think it makes sense to do so.

Consider: responder has a good hand with xx in spades. Should he cue with a borderline hand... possibly propelling the partnership beyond its safety level before the trump weakness is exposed? Or can he cue comfortably, knowing that even a stiff small spade is almost certainly adequate?

On of the main advantages of 2/1 GF is the preservation of bidding space. Any call that deliberately sacrifices bidding space in a constructive auction should convey enough information to replace the bidding space so consumed. Using the jump rebid to describe the hand more than the suit, to me, is wasteful.... because the essence of slam bidding (except when we have a huge number of high cards) is finding good trump and side controls.

In addition, narrowing the suit requirements is not as costly as some (Cascade for example) seem to think. Yes, it renders the 2♠ rebid wide-range. But remember we have an entire level of bidding space that we can use to help define the ranges. And when/if opener shows extra strength, responder knows that there is a trump issue in opener's hand...so that with the goodish hand and xx in trump, he will soft-pedal because there will often be a loser in trump.

Using my preferred style, any non-spade suit by responder, over 3♠, is a cue... I would not use 3N as serious or non-serious, because responder may have a minimum response and 3N may be the best spot, but I can see logic to the contrary view, especially if one requires (as I do not) substantial extras for the 3♠ bid. AKQJxx Axx xx xx is enough for me.

As to whether the cue is 1st or 2nd round... I cue somewhat indiscriminately, concerned more with how I expect/hope the auction will develop, so I would happily cue 4♣ with xx AQxx Qx KQJxx, rather than bid 4♥

As to whether it 'sets trump': to me it does. I see no point in devouring this space for other purposes. Does this mean we are always playing in spades? Of course not, but the partnership dialogue will continue, until the last call, on the basis that we are playing in spades. We surely are NOT playing in an as yet unbid suit, and it is unlikely that we are playing in clubs, but notrump is a very strong possibility.

[Cascade]

pclayton, on Feb 26 2008, 09:11 AM, said:

Cascade, on Feb 25 2008, 11:54 AM, said:

whereagles, on Feb 26 2008, 07:34 AM, said:

It does not, however, set spades as trumps.

I wouldn't like to play a style where it did.

That would mean that for almost all single-suited hands with six or more spades I have two choices:

1. 2♠ Extremely wide ranging

2. 3♠ Demanding spades are trumps

Sure there is also 4♠ whatever that means but that too should be fairly specific in a sensible system after a GF response.

That means about 99% of hands will bid 2♠ and not provide very much information and very few hands will give additional information.

I cannot see how this is an efficient structure.

Agree. 3♠ hogs so much space that we will have a difficult time finding another fit, if in fact one exists. It's only sensible that a jump like 3♠ sets trump.

Echo Noble's comments about using Serious 3N here (or a variant).

I think you mean ...

...disagree.