[billw55]

aguahombre, on Apr 15 2010, 02:35 AM, said:

Not helpful.  What is helpful is to know what partner's 2C followed by 3D can have as a minimum.  To assume it shows as strong a hand as you and I would like it to show --without discussion, and not take into account what partner might be showing can't be a good thing.

There are a lot of folks out there who abuse 2C openings with hands which should open a 1-bid.  Some of them post on these fora.

Agree with this. Look what can happen when you overestimate what a random partner will hold for his 2♣ auction:

http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer...4845-1270099150

[billw55]

The_Hog, on Apr 15 2010, 07:05 AM, said:

♠ J8642
♥ 87
♦ T96
♣ AQ5

AKQ
A
AKxxxx
Qxx

Where do you want to be? What is the best slam? I would bid 3S over 3D. Partner knows the S suit is not that great, (even without holding the top 3 hons), due to the lack of a 2S respnse to 2C.

I am curious about just one thing. If you lead the ♣Q from hand, play the Q from dummy, and it holds, which hand is on lead?

[gwnn]

have you never played Scopa? dummy of course

BTW it's good practice to rebid 2NT here on many 6m322 hands and reserving
2c-2d
3m
to hands that are really really into that suit. Playing that way, this is an easy 4D bid -- if partner is really into diamonds, we have a great 3 card fit and a doubleton for'im.

[jillybean]

This is with a regular, experienced partner, he will have a good, solid diamond suit for his bid. It is pointless attempting to make sense of any bidding sequences opposite random BBO experts and very detrimental to try to cater for it.

I raised ♦'s here and gave up trying to show the 5 ♠'s. With the limited space available I thought if I did not make an immediate raise, partner would never believe I had 3 card support.

[vuroth]

The_Hog, on Apr 15 2010, 07:05 AM, said:

♠ J8642
♥ 87
♦ T96
♣ AQ5

AKQ
A
AKxxxx
Qxx

Where do you want to be? What is the best slam? I would bid 3S over 3D. Partner knows the S suit is not that great, (even without holding the top 3 hons), due to the lack of a 2S respnse to 2C.

I'm no expert, but you still have problems with some 4-1 spade splits, since you may have to ruff a heart with a spade honour if spades are trump. 4-0 splits in diamonds are a whole lot rarer.

That said, I don't really have a bid that says "I'm great if you have AKQ in a suit, but otherwise don't bother". It seems like 3♠ misleads a partner with weak spades far more often than it improves our diamond contract, and with much greater penalty and much smaller reward.

Just my 0.02

[mohitz]

There was a time when i used to bid 3S here. But pretty sure now I would raise diamonds.

[aguahombre]

jillybean, on Apr 15 2010, 08:40 AM, said:

This is with a regular, experienced partner, he will have a good, solid diamond suit for his bid. It is pointless attempting to make sense of any bidding sequences opposite random BBO experts and very detrimental to try to cater for it.

I raised ♦'s here and gave up trying to show the 5 ♠'s. With the limited space available  I thought if I did not make an immediate raise, partner would never believe I had 3 card support.

Well, since neither you nor partner is B/I, and you made the correct 4D raise, then the value of posting this in that forum is still huge. And the lessons for B/I are:

1)2C - 2D
3m is a very, very strong one-suiter.

2) The AKQ A AKXXXX KXX hand given by the Hog should rebid NT, not diamonds.

3) B/I players should (as others have learned) not open 2C with marginal strength and long minor.

[Phil]

Our spades can't be great since we didn't bid 2♠. Yet 4♦ looks pretty obvious.

3♠ looks like a GIB call to me. I hate GIBs (lately anyway).

[pooltuna]

jdonn, on Apr 14 2010, 07:51 PM, said:

I believe very very strongly in 4♦ here. Raise your partner! Bidding spades is misleading and usually a waste of time.

yep this is the time to bypass trying for 3NT as ♦ hands opened with 2♣ are usually highly distorted in some way.

[gwnn]

Phil, on Apr 15 2010, 03:24 PM, said:

Our spades can't be great since we didn't bid 2♠. Yet 4♦ looks pretty obvious.

3♠ looks like a GIB call to me. I hate GIBs (lately anyway).

you have like 2 or 3 more spades than GIB usually for this bid:)

[Codo]

aguahombre, on Apr 15 2010, 11:59 PM, said:

And the lessons for B/I are:

2) The AKQ A AKXXXX KXX hand given by the Hog should rebid NT, not diamonds.

I disagree, but I doubt that 2 NT is a better bid then 3 diamond with Rons example.

I think that you should bid a one suiter as a onesuiter if you hold one. You may learn the exeptions later.

[jukmoi]

rogerclee, on Apr 15 2010, 01:34 AM, said:

Just to add to how ridiculous passing 3N is

A AKx AKQxxx Kxx
void AKx AKQxxxx Kxx
Ax AKx AKQxxx Kx
etc etc

are all automatic 3N bids over 3S and all are cold for 7D or 7N. These examples aren't even contrived, they are totally standard hands for partner on this auction. It's actually not easy to come up with a 2C then 3D hand for opener where 3N is right.

I think that these are automatic 4♦ rebids. Then I will bid 5.♣

[jdonn]

jukmoi, on Apr 15 2010, 11:23 AM, said:

rogerclee, on Apr 15 2010, 01:34 AM, said:

Just to add to how ridiculous passing 3N is

A AKx AKQxxx Kxx
void AKx AKQxxxx Kxx
Ax AKx AKQxxx Kx
etc etc

are all automatic 3N bids over 3S and all are cold for 7D or 7N. These examples aren't even contrived, they are totally standard hands for partner on this auction. It's actually not easy to come up with a 2C then 3D hand for opener where 3N is right.

I think that these are automatic 4♦ rebids. Then I will bid 5.♣

The second one yes. The first and third definitely not. 3♦ already shows a good suit when opener can help it. Do you just never play 3NT when you haven't found a fit?

[gwnn]

partner already told us about his diamonds! we heard him, so he doesn't need to rebid 4D just because we are bad at bridge, maybe we could learn bridge

[jukmoi]

gwnn, on Apr 15 2010, 11:29 AM, said:

partner already told us about his diamonds! we heard him, so he doesn't need to rebid 4D just because we are bad at bridge, maybe we could learn bridge

Cant we play 4NT?

[gwnn]

where did I say we can't?

It's just that

we have exactly what we promised:

a good hand with 6 good diamonds

partner showed a 5 card suit in spades, where we have the stiff ace/Ax

so now we tell him that....

a. well partner I HAVE DIAMONDS I HAVE DIAMONDS 6 DIAMONDS i have a good hand with 6 diamonds yoohoo whoopiieee diamondsszzzzzz
b. well I have nothing else to say, sorry I don't have 3 spades and I have 10 hcp in the unbid suits and no extras

which of the two is more accurate?

(I am talking about hands 1 and 3, I sort of agree that 4D is OK on hand 2)

[jdonn]

jukmoi, on Apr 15 2010, 11:41 AM, said:

gwnn, on Apr 15 2010, 11:29 AM, said:

partner already told us about his diamonds! we heard him, so he doesn't need to rebid 4D just because we are bad at bridge, maybe we could learn bridge

Cant we play 4NT?

Can't 4NT be down with 3NT making? AKQxxx is not a solid suit and all partner needs is a king for the 2♦ bid (in one case that could even be opposite singleton ace and you would never reach dummy...)

You haven't said why you are dying to bypass 3NT to rebid a minor suit you have alread shown on an auction that has uncovered no fit.

[Rodney26]

Agree very strongly with 4♦ and jdonn's thoughts.

I probably open 2♣ on one suited majors too frequently, because I despise the auction 1M-1NT-4M and playing an immediate double negative gives me some leeway to get out in 3 of a major opposite a trainwreck dummy. 2♣-2♦-3♦ in my book should be an unbelievably strong hand because it is such an awkward auction. I also suspect 1♦ will almost never get passed out when you have length & strength in diamonds; 1♠ on a 9 trick hand is just preemptive enough that you might buy it occasionally for an easy 170 and a bad score.

When you open 2♣ and plan to rebid a minor, have the goods.

[Jlall]

jdonn, on Apr 15 2010, 11:28 AM, said:

jukmoi, on Apr 15 2010, 11:23 AM, said:

rogerclee, on Apr 15 2010, 01:34 AM, said:

Just to add to how ridiculous passing 3N is

A AKx AKQxxx Kxx
void AKx AKQxxxx Kxx
Ax AKx AKQxxx Kx
etc etc

are all automatic 3N bids over 3S and all are cold for 7D or 7N. These examples aren't even contrived, they are totally standard hands for partner on this auction. It's actually not easy to come up with a 2C then 3D hand for opener where 3N is right.

I think that these are automatic 4♦ rebids. Then I will bid 5.♣

The second one yes. The first and third definitely not. 3♦ already shows a good suit when opener can help it. Do you just never play 3NT when you haven't found a fit?

Why is the 2nd one an automatic 4D bid? I would never go past 3N at MP when partner bids spades.

[jdonn]

Actually in hindsight I think you're right, my bad. Although 4♦ could work out well so maybe it's close.