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X,Y,Zee

#1 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2011-April-27, 23:44

Playing XYZ how do you play 2♠ in this auction, asking or showing? I think standard , 4th suit is asking, does XYZ change anything?

1♣:1♦
1♥:2♦*
2♠
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#2 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2011-April-27, 23:55

never asking


always showing.

I think responder is captain on this auction.
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#3 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2011-April-28, 06:18

To me it is very obviously showing 4 cards in spades*, however I have never played 4th suit forcing on any auction by opener.

*:2♠ might promise an unbalanced hand also for some people but that is another question.
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#4 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2011-April-28, 07:28

View PostFluffy, on 2011-April-28, 06:18, said:

To me it is very obviously showing 4 cards in spades*, however I have never played 4th suit forcing on any auction by opener.

*:2♠ might promise an unbalanced hand also for some people but that is another question.

Hi, 2♠ is not 4sf, 2♦ created the game force.
With spade control why wouldn't opener bid 2N?
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#5 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2011-April-28, 07:49

2♠ shows spades. 2NT would show a balanced hand.

What if you have a balanced hand and four spades? I think 2NT is best. 2♠ has quite a wide range and it may get overloaded if it contains 12-14 balanced in addition to 11-18 4414/4405.

What if you have a balanced hand without a spade stopper? I think 2♥, the most economical bid, is best, unless you are happy to bid 2NT without a spade stopper. 3♦ on a 3-card suit may be more natural but it gets overloaded if it contains unbalanced (1435, 1436) as well as balanced hands.

What if you have an unbalanced hand with a spade stopper but less that four spades? I think 2NT is ok with 3415 if 12-14 points, at least if the diamond is an honour. Otherwise 3♣ with a 6-card suit or otherwise 2♥.
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#6 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2011-April-28, 07:55

Here's the hand Q975, AK52, V, AT654

1♣:1♦
1♥:2♦*
?
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." MikeH
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#7 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2011-April-28, 08:01

This is definetelly a 2♠ bid
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#8 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2011-April-28, 08:03

Q975, AK52, V, AT654

Now what

1♣:1♦
1♥:2♦*
2♠:3♣
?
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." MikeH
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#9 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2011-April-28, 08:53

View Postjillybean, on 2011-April-28, 08:03, said:

Q975, AK52, V, AT654

Now what

1♣:1♦
1♥:2♦*
2♠:3♣
?


I'd try 3♥. I'm unclear if we are going to play 3N, 5♣ or higher, but all I know is that I'd rather be describing my hand rather than v.v..
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#10 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2011-April-28, 08:53

4♣
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#11 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2011-April-28, 11:03

Yep, 4C. If partner wanted to play 3NT opposite this hand, she shouldn't have tempted us.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

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#12 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2011-April-28, 17:06



It appears all roads lead to the unmakeable 5♣
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." MikeH
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#13 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2011-April-28, 17:27

south for me has a clear 2c bid in xyz and walsh; not game force 2d so:

1c=1d
1h=2c!
2d!=3c(invitational)
?
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#14 User is offline   Siegmund 

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Posted 2011-April-28, 20:55

Perhaps we can upgrade our Qx enough to force to game, if partner plays soundish openers.

The original question about 2S is a good one. I will add it to the list of reasons I have soured on XYZ. (I was briefly a fan, mostly as a means of tricking partners into playing 1-1-1-3 auctions as natural and forcing, accepting the cost of wasting a 2-level bid to avoid an argument.)
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#15 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2011-April-28, 21:52

View Postjillybean, on 2011-April-28, 17:06, said:



It appears all roads lead to the unmakeable 5♣


Unlucky!
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