[mgoetze]

 gwnn, on 2012-June-13, 01:10, said:

If you play 4♦ as game-forcing (as most people do), it is unlimited.

Well OK but... are you planning to bid 5♥ if partner bids 5♦? Well, I guess it could work.

Quote

Furthermore, 4♠ and 4NT are commonly played as the minors if 4♣/♦ are hearts+a minor. How is 4NT going to help us? Partner will bid 5♣ and then we get to bid 5♦, what does that show?

I'm not sure but I don't think that was the rebid I had in mind.

[gwnn]

billw55: with a minor one-suiter, you have to decide between one of pass, double, 3NT and 5/6m. Not perfect but you don't have such a wide range of choices with 5/5 M+m hands (now reduced to basically pass and 4M: you don't want to double with them. actually pass is also scarier here than with some opening hand with a 6-card minor because game needs very little when you have 5-5 yourself).

 mgoetze, on 2012-June-13, 06:56, said:

Well OK but... are you planning to bid 5♥ if partner bids 5♦? Well, I guess it could work.


I'm not sure but I don't think that was the rebid I had in mind.

Well now the discussion has moved partially to the other thread but I'll reply here (mostly because I would have to reply "I don't know" to most sequences). I can either pass, rebid 5H, 5S or 6D if my partner bids 5D. In any case, I'm in a better position having started by describing my hand as 5+♥, 5+♦, game forcing (of course this doesn't mean that I would have opened 2♣, but it's also not every opening hand) than describing my hand as 55+ minors or a heart slam try, or what not. Of course this depends on what exactly we play. If I sat down with a random person and agreed on NLM but had no time to talk about other bids, I'd take 4S as minors and 4NT also as minors (but gnasher's solution is nice so I will assume that from now). I would be confused when my partner rebid hearts. My confusion is reflected by the fact that I thought you'd rebid 5♦, showing maybe 5♥+5♦, but now I see maybe you want to bid 5♥, showing a slam try in hearts, saying nothing about diamonds.

Anyway, are you saying that you play 4D as (pardon the hcp but I like numbers more) 12-15 and 4♠/4NT as 16+, not suitable for double, could be a two-suiter, could be a one-suiter?

[jeffford76]

 Mbodell, on 2012-June-12, 23:13, said:

Partner has a clear 4♦ non-leaping Michaels. Oh, what's that, no one really plays that outside problem hand threads? True enough (although I did have one partner try to suggest it for us this past month, but I refused).

I play NLM in some partnerships, and so far I've gotten two good boards from it. In both cases I passed minor suit hands I would have otherwise been tempted to bid 4m on.

[JLOGIC]

Meh, sometimes this happens when they preempt (RHO did well not to raise). This kind of thing has happened a million times. North must overcall 4H with a very wide range, and whenever he's maximum he risks missing a slam. I really don't think 4H is a horrible bid, forcing to the 5 level is dangerous. It might be right, but if you made the north hand slightly weaker 4H would be clear and you would still miss an easy slam. North needs pretty reasonable cover from his partner to make slam and the 5 level might just be too high. Imagine getting to 5D and the play starts out with you getting tapped, and partners diamonds are not so hot. Maybe it's pessimistic but it's not at all crazy to bid 4H imo.

[mgoetze]

 gwnn, on 2012-June-13, 07:27, said:

Anyway, are you saying that you play 4D as (pardon the hcp but I like numbers more) 12-15 and 4♠/4NT as 16+, not suitable for double, could be a two-suiter, could be a one-suiter?

No, my answers in this thread were on the assumption that NLM had not really been agreed. In this scenario I'm quite sure 4♠ should show a two-suiter with hearts, and I think 4NT would ostensibly be minors. My point really is that I might be declined to treat this hand as single-suited with hearts if that will help me convey the strength more accurately. Whether I can do that is a more complicated question.