[dickiegera]

How many pts does west need for a take out double hear assuming a 1-4-4-4 hand?
Should any thing else be considered?

Thank you

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Sorry for the late posting of the hand.

[kenberg]

This depends entirely on whether you are my partner or my opponent.

Sorry, but if you want a serious answer I don't know it. I cannot recall it ever arising. I guess there are some rules against totally frivolous bidding that might apply. Handing out random tops and bottoms is rightly discouraged. But other than that, I have never heard of any such rule.

I gather you ran across this somewhere?

[Vampyr]

My partner gets cross when I do it with ten. So I would say 11 is the lower limit. 8-ish if you are balancing.

[jeffford76]

I think 10 is normal (assuming none of the 10 are a singleton honor).

There isn't a rule about it, though - you and your partner can agree to whatever you want, although if you're regularly doing it with a lot less than that you should probable be alerting them.

[Vampyr]

 jeffford76, on 2013-April-08, 16:39, said:

There isn't a rule about it, though

What is all this about "rules"? The OP didn't mention it.

[jeffford76]

 Vampyr, on 2013-April-08, 16:56, said:

What is all this about "rules"? The OP didn't mention it.

It was unclear to me whether the question was intended to be "With what hands am I allowed to make a takeout double?" or "With what hands is it a good idea to make a takeout double?" so I tried to answer both.

[CSGibson]

I am a believer in light, shapely take-out doubles, but I think it depends on a lot of factors. I am more likely to make a light take out double non-vul, and more likely to make a light take-out double opposite a passed hand partner. I am also more likely to make a light take-out double when they have opened a minor at the 1 level and I am 4-4 in the majors. I can stretch down to a shapely 9 count given the right circumstances - lower than that and I start to get uncomfortable.

Basically my rule of thumb is that the less likely partner is to hang me, the more likely I am to bid with light HCP, including take-out doubles.

[Zelandakh]

 dickiegera, on 2013-April-08, 13:40, said:

How many pts does west need for a take out double hear assuming a 1-4-4-4 hand?
Should any thing else be considered?

Thank you

I think we should consider the auction at least. It boggles my mind that there are so many answers here - the bidding might be (2♠) - P - (6♠) for all we know. Do you mean after a 1♠ opening? a 2♠ opening? 3♠? in the sandwich position after 1m - 1♠? or 1♠ - 2♠? The answers seem to assume the first of these but I do not understand why.

[PhilKing]

 Zelandakh, on 2013-April-09, 04:12, said:

I think we should consider the auction at least. It boggles my mind that there are so many answers here - the bidding might be (2♠) - P - (6♠) for all we know. Do you mean after a 1♠ opening? a 2♠ opening? 3♠? in the sandwich position after 1m - 1♠? or 1♠ - 2♠? The answers seem to assume the first of these but I do not understand why.

Who said they opened spades?

[Zelandakh]

 Zelandakh, on 2013-April-09, 04:12, said:

in the sandwich position after 1m - 1♠?

 PhilKing, on 2013-April-09, 04:49, said:

Who said they opened spades?

Not me...

[fromageGB]

 dickiegera, on 2013-April-08, 13:40, said:

How many pts does west need for a take out double hear assuming a 1-4-4-4 hand?

Pretty much the same as at any other points of the compass.

[billw55]

I will try to imagine the lightest possible scenario. Let's say BAM, favorable vulnerability, RHO deals and opens 1♣. Holding 4441, I could conceive doubling holding a good enough eight count. Maybe ♠KQT9 ♥ QJTx ♦T98x ♣x. I think that is about as low as I would ever consider going.

At the other end of the spectrum, let's say IMPs, all vul, partner deals and passes, RHO opens 1♠. Now my minimum will look more like ♠x ♥ KQTx ♦Axxx ♣QTxx, or similar.

[dickiegera]

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I am sorry this was the bidding sequence I had in mine.

Now what does WEST need to double?