[WellSpyder]

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West leads ♠3 (4th highest from length, 2nd highest from a poor suit). You play low from dummy and East wins ♠A. ♠10 returned, on which West plays ♠6. What is the best line for 9 tricks (imps)?

[rhm]

Win, cash diamonds and return a spade.

Rainer Herrmann

[WellSpyder]

rhm, on 2013-November-25, 06:05, said:

Win, cash diamonds and return a spade.

You're not worried about losing 3 spades, a diamond and a heart this way? (Both opponents follow to 3 rounds of diamonds.)

[rhm]

WellSpyder, on 2013-November-25, 06:13, said:

You're not worried about losing 3 spades, a diamond and a heart this way? (Both opponents follow to 3 rounds of diamonds.)

Why a heart? I have not yet given up control in that suit.
I am more worried how to get 9 tricks than giving opponents five.
The alternative is not to cash the diamonds first before returning a spade and hope opponents will not find the diamond switch.

Hard to tell which one is better.

Rainer Herrmann

[gszes]

trick 1 lose spade (what I do best)
trick 2 win spade in dummy and unless I have strong reason to assume lho began with 5 spades----
trick 3 lead heart J intending to let it ride (if covered win A and knock out other heart honor) it loses
trick 4 lose spade
trick 5 hopefully lose last spade pitch heart T from dummy and dia from hand
trick 6 win dia return in hand anything else the hand is over
trick 7 dia A
trick 8 club K
trick 9 club Q
trick 10 club A (assuming J has not fallen else hand is over)

hands are reduced to

void
74
K
void

void
A9
void
T

trick 11 dia K and pitch club T unless E throws the club J (hand is over)
trick 12 unless you have "strong" reason to believe lho began with KQ tight in hearts
you should now lead a heart intending to finesse the 9 and if lho wins the now stiff heart
honor and cashes a club take a deep bow and get out of that game as soon as possible
unless its IMPS then stick around a while longer.

[WellSpyder]

gszes, on 2013-November-25, 15:11, said:

trick 1 lose spade (what I do best)
trick 2 win spade in dummy and unless I have strong reason to assume lho began with 5 spades----

What do you think might be a strong reason to assume lho began with 5 spades? (If they are 5-2, of course, then rhm's line of cashing ♦ and exiting with a spade risks losing 4 ♠s and a ♦ before you have really got going)

Quote

trick 3 lead heart J intending to let it ride (if covered win A and knock out other heart honor) it loses
trick 4 lose spade
trick 5 hopefully lose last spade pitch heart T from dummy and dia from hand
trick 6 win dia return in hand anything else the hand is over
trick 7 dia A
trick 8 club K
trick 9 club Q
trick 10 club A (assuming J has not fallen else hand is over)

If you are going to play ♣s this way and rely (mostly) on finessing ♥s twice, then do you think there might be a case for playing the ♣ before the first ♥ finesse, just in case ♠ are 5-2 and J♣ is coming down all the time?

[MrAce]

gszes, on 2013-November-25, 15:11, said:

trick 1 lose spade (what I do best)
trick 2 win spade in dummy and unless I have strong reason to assume lho began with 5 spades----

You are not paying attention. You are running like a blind squirrel l Ooops ! LHO has 5 spades! Who would guess !?


Did anybody see the spade 2 ? Do you think a third hand player would play A from AT2 ? Who plays A from AT2 in this position ?

Any other reason stronger than these 2, would be looking at LHO hand to make sure,.

You might be cold for 3 NT if clubs are behaving when conceding a ♥ trick is likely to be a disaster. LHO is very likely to be false carding in spades imho.

[WellSpyder]

MrAce, on 2013-November-26, 03:59, said:

You are not paying attention.


Did anybody see the spade 2 ? Do you think a third hand player would play A from AT2 ?

Any other reason stronger than these 2, would be looking at LHO hand to make sure,.

When someone good at card play, especially Rainer writes something, stop for a second and try to understand b4 keep on running like a blind squirrel. You might be cold for 3 NT if clubs are behaving when conceding a ♥ trick is likely to be a disaster. LHO is very likely to be false carding in spades imho.

Ooops ! LHO has 5 spades! Who would guess !?

Not seeing the ♠2 is a slightly confusing point, isn't it? Doesn't that suggest spades are more likely to be 4-3 than 5-2? But the possibility of LHO falsecarding is a good point, I think, as is the question of whether RHO would play A from A102 rather than 10.

I'm also slightly confused about the point you are making about what Rainer wrote, since it looks to me as if he didn't attach the same weight that you have to the possibility of spades being 5-2. Cashing ♦ and exiting in ♠ risks immediate defeat if spades are 5-2, and even if LHO doesn't have any ♦ left will give you some serious discard problems on the ♠ when they are 5-2.

[MrAce]

WellSpyder, on 2013-November-26, 04:09, said:

Not seeing the ♠2 is a slightly confusing point, isn't it? Doesn't that suggest spades are more likely to be 4-3 than 5-2? But the possibility of LHO falsecarding is a good point, I think, as is the question of whether RHO would play A from A102 rather than 10.

I'm also slightly confused about the point you are making about what Rainer wrote, since it looks to me as if he didn't attach the same weight that you have to the possibility of spades being 5-2. Cashing ♦ and exiting in ♠ risks immediate defeat if spades are 5-2, and even if LHO doesn't have any ♦ left will give you some serious discard problems on the ♠ when they are 5-2.

I edited the comment i made about Rainer when i re read his post before you post this. In fact i edited more than 2-3 times for other reasons in spelling and organizing the paragraphs. I was about to reply to him as well.

Regarding to what to play from AT2 in 3rd seat when you see Q9x in dummy, i think it is a crime to play A. Trying to explain why it is a crime would be insult to bridge knowledge of people, so i skipped it. Rainer at least did not create a ♥ winner for them. In his line 1 he may create a ♦ loser but he may also find LHO with3 or less diamonds +5 spades and be able to read hands when they cash spades. RHo will discard for a while and this will tell a lot of stories.

[MrAce]

Deleted

[benlessard]

I think I would cash 2D and exit S vs good defender, and probably cash 3D against weaker defender, hoping they return Hx of hearts after a signalling.

[awm]

I'll just exit a spade. This lets me know the spade break. If they cash I will pitch a diamond from hand and a heart from dummy. If they cash a 5th round a heart from each hand.

If spades 4-3, say they cash and play diamond. I win in dummy and take heart finesse. They put me in hand with diamond, I cash three clubs ending in dummy. If jack comes down I pitch heart on diamond and claim. Otherwise pitch club on diamond and take another heart hook.

If spades 5-2, I will basically play for CJ doubleton or onside, although I can cash winners first and get a partial count or maybe an unlikely squeeze in the round suits.

[JLOGIC]

awm, on 2013-November-26, 20:12, said:

If spades 4-3, say they cash and play diamond. I win in dummy and take heart finesse. They put me in hand with diamond, I cash three clubs ending in dummy. If jack comes down I pitch heart on diamond and claim. Otherwise pitch club on diamond and take another heart hook.

Can't do all of this, you were squeezed on the 4th spade from your hand. You said you'd pitch a diamond, in which case you have AQ doubleton so winning the DK will not work.

[MrAce]

I don't understand why there are still people who thinks spades still may be 4-3.

Your chances of finding 4-3 spade (assuming RHO is int + player) is less than Jews and Arabs declaring peace for good b4 2014.

This hand will come down to clubs. You can more or less get some information b4 you play clubs and that's all u can do in this hand imo. I think it is best to get info about clubs without endangering the 3 NT and eventually play clubs.

[WellSpyder]

MrAce, on 2013-November-27, 05:05, said:

I don't understand why there are still people who thinks spades still may be 4-3.

Your chances of finding 4-3 spade (assuming RHO is int + player) is less than Jews and Arabs declaring peace for good b4 2014.

This hand will come down to clubs. You can more or less get some information b4 you play clubs and that's all u can do in this hand imo. I think it is best to get info about clubs without endangering the 3 NT and eventually play clubs.

I think MrAce is right (though, of course, I may be biased by knowing how the cards were actually lying when the hand came up). I was RHO, and I am sure I would have played 10 from ♠A102 at T1, not A - indeed, I gave some thought to playing 10 even from ♠A10 before deciding that either way I needed partner to have an outside entry, in which case I only needed him to have Kxxxx not KJxxx. So I don't really think that partner's falsecard to suggest spades were 4-3 rather than 5-2 should have deceived declarer. (He may not have known his opponents' skill level, but the board occurred in England's premier inter-county competition, so he could certainly assume they were intermediate+.)

LHO's actual hand was ♠K7632♥K53♦8632♣9, so anyone cashing ♦s before exiting in ♠ would have gone down immediately, as would anyone taking a ♥ finesse. Those exiting in ♠ immediately would probably be OK since there is little choice when the defence take 4 ♠ tricks but to rely on ♣ coming in.

Declarer at our table clearly had his suspicions that ♠ might just be 5-2 since he cashed 3♣ tricks just in case the J came down, before relying on one out of two ♥ finesses. But in order to do that while keeping the entries for the ♥ finesses he had to start with K and Q, and could no longer take a marked finesse against ♣J. I thought at the time that he was unlucky, but felt afterwards that he perhaps should have put more weight on the inference MrAce has highlighted about RHO's play in ♠s.

[rmnka447]

If you return a ♠ at trick three, you learn a lot more about the hand. RHO will either follow (♠s 4-3) or have to pitch (♠s 5-2).

If ♠s are 4-3, you can easily fond a ♥ pitch from dummy without prejudicing any line of play. However, declarer's hand is squeezed. Whatever pitch you make locks you into a specific line of play. If you pitch a ♥ or ♦, you give up on setting up a ♥ trick. If you pitch a ♣ you give up on possibly scoring 4 ♣ tricks. LHO has 9 vacant places and RHO has 10 vacant places, so there's small but perceptible difference (10-9 odds) that RHO holds any particular card. Right or wrong, I'd pitch a ♣ and play for split ♥ honors.

If spades are 5-2, you're pretty much down to playing to bring in the ♣s for four tricks. The only other possibility is a squeeze if one opponent holds both ♥ honors and 4 ♣s. So to cater to that latter possibility, pitch 2 ♥s from dummy and 2 red cards from declarer's hand. Eventually you'll end up in dummy at this point

♠ -
♥ J
♦ K
♣ 4

opposite

♠ -
♥ -
♦ 4
♣ Q10

If someone started with ♥ KQ and 4 ♣s, they'll be squeezed at this point when you play ♦ K. So if the ♥ KQ haven't shown make your best guess as to what to do in ♣s.

[WellSpyder]

WellSpyder, on 2013-November-27, 06:12, said:

Declarer at our table clearly had his suspicions that ♠ might just be 5-2 since he cashed 3♣ tricks just in case the J came down, before relying on one out of two ♥ finesses.

Thinking about it further, perhaps a more important reason why declarer cashed the ♣s first was so that, assuming the suit didn't come in, he would be comfortable discarding his 4th ♣ on the 4th round of ♠.