[mojila]

opening 1♠- P - 4N -P - ?
After opening 1♠ opp pass is 4N blackwood, Quantitative or for minors ..?
Openner plays Rkc but agreed to play reg Blackwood.

mojila

[1eyedjack]

I would say Blackwood of whatever flavour.

1S opener is very wide range, both in high card strength and in distribution. Both of those features need to be narrowed down before you can possibly decide on an informed basis that a quantitative 4N is appropriate.

By contrast if you have a good Spade fit and values for slam, with missing top controls being the only risk, then there is no point waiting to ask.

A possible exception is that opener may have a void, which may or may not be opposite an ace held by responder. Blackwood is not good at identifying this. But there may not be any guarantee that an alternative route will do so, and you may reasonable assume a low frequency of that problem.

4N for the minors would be a really fringe treatment. It may have some value in preventing the opponents from bidding Hearts. But that aside, you can certainly show both minors by starting with 2-minor response, which is likely to be more helpful. If opener can have 12-21 HCP, how is he to know whether to bid 5-minor, 6-minor or 7-minor over 4N?

[helene_t]

This is normally played as regular Blackwood. To ask for keycards, first make a forcing raise and then bid 4nt.
It shouldn't be for the minors in any case. With both minors just bid 2 ♦ and then 3 ♣. That gives you much more bidding space

[mojila]

OK I will add hand...

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1♠-P-4N-P- ? (bid) is this 4N blackwood...

[helene_t]

Why did South bid Blackwood? The number of aces that North has is possibly the information he is least interested in! Anyway, North will have to show one ace. If you have a method to show speciafically one ace plus a void in clubs, by all means use it, but don't count a void as an ace unless you know that partner doesn't have the ace in that suit.

Remember:
- Don't use Blackwood if you have a void (unless you know whether partner has the ace in that suit).
- Don't use blackwood if you don't know which suit is trump.
- Don't use Blackwood if you are not confident in slam if you turn out to be missing one ace.

A better auction is (assuming that it is your style to open with the North hand)
1♠-2♣
2♥-3♦* (fourth suit forcing)
3♥-4♦* (sets hearts as trump)
4♥-5♣* (cue, assuming your style is not to cue shortness in partner's suit, otherwise you could bid 4♠)
5♥-6♥

It is still not perfect since it is hard for North to know whether his ♠A is enough for bidding grand slam or whether South is fishing for good trumps. Maybe someone else can suggest a better auction?

[1eyedjack]

A simple change of suit does not deny a slam try.

[Cyberyeti]

This is a very obvious 2♣ bid, you have no idea which suit you want to play in. 6♥ is a pretty bad contract, but this is difficult to diagnose.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

Most people would have a way to set spades as trumps in a forcing manner below 4S.
After having done so, it is clear, that 4NT is RKCB.
If you dont have a way to set spades as trumps in a forcing manner, than the RKCB meaning
can be useful sometimes.

A quantitative 4NT works best, if the range the other player can hold is limited.
In the given auction, all we know, that we face an opening bid, which may be 10-12,
upto whatever is left.

The idea behind 4NT as showing the minors is, that we want to shut out the opponents.
In the given auction one opponent passed, and our partner opened, so we dont have to fear
preemption.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: South should bid 2C, over a 1S opening bid. I may also recommend, that Norths passes
instead of opening 1S, at least unless you have a firm grip on uncontested auctions.

[whereagles]

helene_t, on 2014-June-10, 02:10, said:

Why did South bid Blackwood? The number of aces that North has is possibly the information he is least interested in!

On the contrary: if north responds to RKCB denying AK of spades, odds for 6♣ are pretty good

(Not that 4NT is a good bid... lol)

[billw55]

Agree 4NT is bad and 2♣ instead is clear. I would probably land in 4♥ and be happy with it.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Is this really a 1♠ opener ?

[Zelandakh]

Let's play a game: Can anyone guess as to what South intended 4NT to mean after looking at the hand (Bwd, RKCB, quant, minors)? Can anyone guess as to which hand the OP held, if any (N, S, E-W, none)?

[hrothgar]

Zelandakh, on 2014-June-10, 08:45, said:

Let's play a game: Can anyone guess as to what South intended 4NT to mean after looking at the hand (Bwd, RKCB, quant, minors)? Can anyone guess as to which hand the OP held, if any (N, S, E-W, none)?

New partner asking bid...

[Bbradley62]

Responding to OP's actual question, for which it was unnecessary to see the diagram: 4N is clearly Blackwood.

Agreeing with other comments after seeing the diagram: North and South are both lunatics.

[helene_t]

Bbradley62, on 2014-June-10, 08:59, said:

North and South are both lunatics.

This is a bit harsh. North's opening may or may not conform to the partnership's style.

4NT is a very bad bid indeed.

[mojila]

Clearly north hand is not opener. Fails rule of 20. if in 4th seat than fails pearson count too.Second major suite contains more
than 3 cards so can not open weak two. North hand is a pass hand, North should not open. South 4N looks like Blackwood. But seeing
South hand why south bid Blackwood he/she has Spade void.
mojila

[Zelandakh]

mojila, on 2014-June-10, 13:29, said:

Clearly north hand is not opener. Fails rule of 20.

But passes Rule of 19 which many prefer. It also has 2+HT and a 6 card suit, which makes it an opening by 1940s standards. In other words, you can agree to open this hand if you like; it is a matter of partnership agreement.

mojila, on 2014-June-10, 13:29, said:

Second major suite contains more than 3 cards so can not open weak two.

Just occasionally someone here might suggest opening a Weak 2 with a 4 card major on the side. Naturally we throw them in a box for a week but every now and then they come back and spread their heresy.

mojila, on 2014-June-10, 13:29, said:

South 4N looks like Blackwood.

Then why did you ask the question?

[blackshoe]

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On the auction given, though, I agree that 4NT is Blackwood. Not RCKB, apparently this pair are not playing that.

[Antrax]

I think I got it, Zel. OP was south and intended 4NT as a quant invite. His partner took it as blackwood and they had a fight.

[wank]

opening the north hand is perfectly normal. south needs to learn how to bid, for example by bidding his suits and looking for a fit.