[jillybean]

A friend sent me this hand, I'm interested in how others would bid it.

You're playing 2/1 14-17 NT, 4 way transfer, super accept minors in suit below, Kickback, specific Kings.

---

[masse24]

1NT - 2♣
2♠ - 3♥¹
3♠² - 4♦³
4NT - 5♠
6♣⁴ - 7♠⁵


1. Agrees ♠'s, shortage in unnamed suit
2. Where is your shortage?
3. ♥ shortage
4. Got the ♣Q?
5. Sure do, and the ♦Q --- Oh what the heck!

[kenrexford]

The auction wouldn't have started this way. A 14-17 range is fine, but this certainly upgrades in context. So,

1D-1S
3S would be a good start.

[P_Marlowe]

1NT - 2C
2S - 4H (1)
4NT - ..
6S

(1) as splinter, alternative would be a forcing raise of spades via 3H

To get to 7S, you need South to start the KC ask,
since I choose the heart splinter, North had to the asking, and
finding out about the Queen of diamonds / the diamond fit .
If you go via 3H, and if North showes max. via a cue bidding seq.,
that involves serious / non serious NT, you could achieve this.

On further thinking North may be able to count 13 tricks, or that this
is odds on, if South is 44 in the minor, but this is to complicate for
me at the table, and I am known to miscount.

And North does not know, if South has anything besides the shown KCs and
Kings.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[helene_t]

1NT-2♣
2♠-4♥*
4NT-5♠
6♣**-7♦***
7NT****

*splinter
**help in clubs and some grand slam potential?
*** suggestion
****The 7♦ bid must be based on either club Q plus five diamonds, or 6 diamonds and a doubleton clubs, either way we have 13 tricks.

Yes I know it is "wrong" that opener takes captaincy but the 4♥ splinter transfers captaincy

[Antrax]

No heart interference?

[Fluffy]

I would be puzzled after 5♠ response to blackwood as north because I hold all the kings and have no clue how to go on, 6♦ would be great as second round control asking, but that suggests I have 4342 instead of 4243

[Fluffy]

masse24, on 2014-July-30, 18:38, said:

1NT - 2♣
2♠ - 3♥¹
3♠² - 4♦³
4NT - 5♠
6♣⁴ - 7♠⁵


1. Agrees ♠'s, shortage in unnamed suit
2. Where is your shortage?
3. ♥ shortage
4. Got the ♣Q?
5. Sure do, and the ♦Q --- Oh what the heck!

I find it mazing that once you agree to the superior unknown splinter that lets you 1 extra step you do not use it to your advantage. BId 4♥ over 4♦ and let partner make the questions.

[Zelandakh]

It looks like the normal start to this auction is going to be 1NT - 2♣; 2♠ - 4♥; 4NT - 5♠ as given by several posters already. The question is what agreements we have from here. A normal (to me) scheme here is for 6♣ and 6♦ to be SSAs and 6♥ to be a general grand try, although there are many other possibilities. If that is what we have then I think 6♥ is best and that South should accept. More than likely this agreement is not there though, in which case we really have to know what options might be available for this partnership.

I also take Ken's point about upgrading. This hand is as powerful as many 18 counts despite the lack of intermediates or a 5 card suit, so a lot depends on our upgrading style. The 14-17 range suggests we might upgrade quite a lot in which case treating this as outside of 1NT range is more than reasonable. In that case it is South that gets to do the asking and reaching the grand becomes pretty trivial.

[whereagles]

This is a one in a million hand for a 14-17 NT. Don't think I'd bother to look beyond 6♠. Well, not without relay methods anyway.

[kenrexford]

If you open 1NT, perhaps because of no upgrades, another logical solution is for Opener to not ask but instead answer. In other words, after 4H, Opener bids 5C as three keys.

This approach makes a lot of sense in many sequences. A 1NT opening with primes seems to qualify.

[Cyberyeti]

kenrexford, on 2014-July-31, 05:18, said:

If you open 1NT, perhaps because of no upgrades, another logical solution is for Opener to not ask but instead answer. In other words, after 4H, Opener bids 5C as three keys.

This approach makes a lot of sense in many sequences. A 1NT opening with primes seems to qualify.

Indeed, it's often easier if the hand with the side suit queens does the asking. S needs to know that N has 4 spades, 3 keycards and the other 2 non heart Ks, N needs to know about the 2 side suit Qs as well as the two aces and Q trumps. Unless you have sophisticated methods, it's easier to show side suit Ks than Qs.

[Zelandakh]

Cyberyeti, on 2014-July-31, 05:34, said:

Indeed, it's often easier if the hand with the side suit queens does the asking.

This is indeed true when looking for a grand slam. When trying to reach the small one it is often easier if the the hand with the side suit kings is doing the asking. From that came the idea of having a hand ask if it contained 2 kings and show with fewer, which in turn means that less space needs to be devoted to finding kings if we are in fact looking for a grand.

Sadly I have not developed it and think it is probably of too small a scope to be generally useful. On the other hand I have been doing something along the lines of what Ken wrote for a while but based on the less known hand always showing rather than having it as a two-way thing. Here the splinter both limits and describes the South hand so it is arguable which way round it should be done on random pairs of hands.

[fromageGB]

It must depend on agreements, as surely if you play huge range NT (I don't) then there must be a way of differentiating between a bad 14 and a superb 17 (an effective 6 point range?). So I cannot make any sensible suggestions having started 1NT.

If I had seen all my honours before I opened, the bidding might go 1♦ - 1♠, 3♠ - 4NT, 3keycards - 5NT, 6♣(cheaper of 1 or 2 Kings) - 6♦(got this one?), 7♠(yes).

[TWO4BRIDGE]

jillybean, on 2014-July-30, 17:53, said:

A friend sent me this hand, I'm interested in how others would bid it.

You're playing 2/1 14-17 NT, 4 way transfer, super accept minors in suit below, Kickback, specific Kings.

---

I guess there is something to be said for the hand with the Queens to do the asking here:

North
1NT - 2C
2S - 3C! maybe artificial
3D! ( asks ) - 3S ( yes, 3C! was artificial, but have a ♠ fit and need cuebids )
3NT! ( ♣-cue ) - 4C ( ♣-cue )
4D ( ♦cue ) - 4NT ( RKC )
5C ( 0 or 3 ) - 5H ( 2nd step = specific K-ask; guarantees all key cards and trump Q )
6C ( ♣ K; no ♥ K ) - 6D ( 2nd K-ask )
6NT ( ♦ K ) - 7S

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Note: 3C! here by no means standard .

[Cyberyeti]

fromageGB, on 2014-July-31, 10:34, said:

It must depend on agreements, as surely if you play huge range NT (I don't) then there must be a way of differentiating between a bad 14 and a superb 17 (an effective 6 point range?). So I cannot make any sensible suggestions having started 1NT.

If I had seen all my honours before I opened, the bidding might go 1♦ - 1♠, 3♠ - 4NT, 3keycards - 5NT, 6♣(cheaper of 1 or 2 Kings) - 6♦(got this one?), 7♠(yes).

We don't know if this is really 14-17 or 15-17 but we sometimes upgrade 14s.

Having actually played a 6 point 1N range successfully a while back, you have to play a completely different system over it, just for interest ours would have started 1N-2♣(can be many things)-2♥(upper range, <4H)-3♦(5+♦/4M, values to GF opposite 3 points less)-3♥(4♠)-3♠(also 4♠) and cues starting from there.

[MrAce]

I really don't like the suggestions with NT opener asking a queen for grand slam, after taking the control which he should not have IMO.

But if we are going to bid it this way anyway, IMHO opener should just bid 5 NT to indicate that we have all 6 key cards incase responder is interested in grand slam. Note that grand slam is very reasonable even without club Q or even w/o club K (imagIne opener has Axx instead of Ax)
After 5 NT all responder needs is to hear 6 dia from opener.

[MrAce]

FWIW I would not upgrade the opening hand but I have no strong problem with it either. However comments about upgrading is distracting us from the real issue here. Just take out the club K and replace it with a small heart. Now you are looking at a 14 count hand with no spots and big slam still looks sexy to me when responder tables his cards while I am about to play my 4 or 6 spades.